Cleaning FV etc

Discussion in 'General Beer Brewing Discussion' started by Neil1454, Jan 29, 2019.

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  1. Feb 1, 2019 #21

    Madhouse

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    As has been said the closer to use you sanitise the better. I guess if you are able to seal it all up after sanitisation the day before then you shouldn't get any issues.
    Personally, I sanitise as my wort is cooling and then just before bottling then it's a matter of minutes between sanitisation and use.

    We all have our own little routines, it's whatever works for you really.
     
  2. Feb 2, 2019 #22

    Neil1454

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    Hi

    I asked the home brew shop the reason for not recommending it.
    Thought I'd share their response to hear what you all thought.

    Here it is....
    ........


    Hello


    It all depends what you are using it for.


    We don’t recommend it’s for use as a steriliser, it not as affective as the other steriliser, causes problem with yeast preventing it from fermenting, and some people can not drink anything with sulphates in. it was used at one time then there were not better alterative (VWP and similar).


    It still has a use in wine making, unless it is being made for someone who is allergic to sulphates, where is can be used as a stabiliser and a preservative.


    Some customer still uses it for sterilisation, we don’t recommend for this use.
     
  3. Feb 2, 2019 #23

    cheeseyfeet

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    Aren't they talking about sodium metabisulfite here rather than sodium percarbonate?
     
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  4. Feb 2, 2019 #24

    Hoppyland

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    Must be. There is no sulphur at all in sodium percarbonate. It breaks down in hot water to form oxygen gas and sodium carbonate The process produces a highly effective cleaning agent - whilst it is fizzy - and once the oxygen has been released then the residue is pretty harmless. Sodium carbonate is also known as washing soda. It is non-toxic, mildly alkaline, very soluble in water and therefore easily rinsed off to leave a clean surface. It definitely does need rinsing, though.
    However, the HBS advice is good in as much as it is a cleaner. It is not a steriliser.
    To sterilise, you need to use something labelled as such - or bleach as you suggest.
    Personally, I use lots of thin bleach. But, I never dilute it. I use it full-strength on previously cleaned surfaces, let it do its job for maybe 10-20mins, and then rinse thoroughly. Why dilute it? All you're achieving is to dilute its sterilising power.
    My protocol is:
    Clean first (you cannot sterilise a dirty object)
    Then sterilise (OK, it won't be lab-standard sterile, but for homebrewing purposes it should be fine)
    Then sanitise after rinsing (Especially if, like me, you're on a private water supply which will be far from sterile. Good practice anyway to keep things sanitised to avoid any "nasties" starting to colonise)
     
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  5. Feb 2, 2019 #25

    phildo79

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    Same here. And it is so much easier and quicker with kegs. Back in the day though, I would leave my bottles in the bath tub for a 30 minute soak with 200ml of thin bleach. Then rinse and fill. Swapped that method to submerging 2 bottles at a time in a second FV with six litres of Star San. Just meant no more dicking around with trips upstairs to the bathroom or rinsing out. Can't say I was ever a fan of using bleach. Was always concerned that it wasn't all removed before bottling.
     
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  6. Feb 5, 2019 #26

    Neil1454

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    What is the dilution rate of sodium percarbonate for using with homebrew?

    Thanks
     
  7. Feb 5, 2019 #27

    phildo79

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    If you buy an unscented oxi cleaner from the supermarket, I'd say about one scoop per litre of hot water. Or two scoops if the FV is really dirty.

    It's always good practice to clean up after you've racked. Saves agro in the long run.
     
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  8. Feb 6, 2019 #28

    Mavroz

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    Definite +1 for the clean up after bottling or keghing.
     
  9. Feb 6, 2019 #29

    Leon103

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    Sounds like they haven't got a clue
     
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  10. Feb 6, 2019 #30

    Drunkula

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    Even though it's counter intuitive that's not true. As you lower the pH it becomes more effective but less stable. Dilution with water, especially with the addition of a little acid such as vinegar makes it crazy more potent but you're looking at it breaking down over a day.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-02/asfm-vik021306.php
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  11. Feb 6, 2019 #31

    Neil1454

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    Ok so one scoop should be ok?
    I was not sure how important the dilution had to be.
     
  12. Feb 11, 2019 #32

    phildo79

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    Nor am I, TBH. But someone here (possibly @Bigcol49) gave me those directions and it has worked well for me so far.
     
  13. Feb 11, 2019 #33

    Neil1454

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    I'm assuming this is more concentrated than the likes of an oxi cleaner would be ?
     
  14. Feb 11, 2019 #34

    phildo79

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  15. Feb 11, 2019 #35

    Bigcol49

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    Hi @Hoppyland
    You only need an 80 parts per million solution to sanitise equipment, so using neat bleach is a bit of an overkill.
    I use a solution of bleach and vinegar as a no-rinse sanitiser.
     
  16. Feb 11, 2019 #36

    Drunkula

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    It's an underkill! As I've linked, neat bleach isn't as effective.
     
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  17. Feb 11, 2019 #37

    Bigcol49

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    Hi @Drunkula
    I missed your post and link.
    It's an interesting read - the only thing to remember is that US bleach is probobly much stronger than UK bleach. The cheap bleach that I use is only 0.99% chlorine, so a calculation is needed to get to a 80 parts per million solution.
    In an audio blog Charlie Talley explains that a bleach/vinegar solution at 80 ppm is safe as a no-rinse sanitiser and requires only 30 seconds application.
     
  18. Feb 11, 2019 #38

    Banbeer

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    I've just started brewing again after a couple of years gap and I got the plastic bottles(already cleaned after pouring the contents a couple of years ago) and cleaned them in warm water then used a videne no rinse solution spray and bottled a Wherry 9 days ago, tried one tonight(experimental reasons of course) and it was fine. Must admit tho I did use VWP on the FV and utensils as they hadn't been used either.
     

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