Clone Brews (tess and mark Szamatulski)

Discussion in 'Brewing Books & Publications' started by Niman, Jan 29, 2016.

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  1. Jan 29, 2016 #1

    Niman

    Niman

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2018
  2. Jan 29, 2016 #2

    ManseMasher

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    Sounds like something my lad plays on his x-box......
     
  3. Jan 29, 2016 #3

    MyQul

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    I also bought this on kindle as it was about 3 quid. I agree its quite clunky on kindle as with a 'real' book you can easily flick between pages which isn't true for a kindle
     
  4. Aug 26, 2019 #4

    Cheshire Cat

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    This is a great book completely changed my span of beers to brew compared to Graham Wheelers book.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2019 #5

    SteveH

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    I've bought a few brewing books on kindle and found the same, but using the kindle app on an iPad works much better than the normal kindle, the index feature is easier to use and the pictures show up in colour - worth a try if you have a tablet/phone etc that can run the app.
     
  6. Aug 27, 2019 #6

    Justin Dean

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    "the book focuses mostly on Extract brewing with only footnotes for AllGrain brewers. Usually, recipe books will give the actual ingredients as the main recipe with Extract substitutes as the footnotes. ""
     
  7. Aug 29, 2019 #7

    PhilBrew

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    Hi Justin
    ... I've seen that review on Amazon before, and always felt it was a bit unfair :?:
    Each of their recipes are described in Extract versions, first ... with a "typical" recipe of theirs described in the form;
    1. Steep this weight of these (specialty) grains in so much water at whatever temp.
    2. Strain and sparge with so much more water, bring total vol up to whatever, then add this much of this type of malt extract(s) and so much of these (bittering) hops, bring to boil and boil for X mins.
    3. Then add this much of these (flavour) hops and boil for so long.
    4. Then add this much (aroma) hops and boil for this much longer.
    5. Cool, strain and dilute to whatever volume.
    ... but then the all-grain (and mini-mash) versions are written more as "variations", I'd say, rather than "footnotes" ... with the AG versions saying something like ... mash the specialty grains with so much of that base malt for this long at that temp. , then add x% less bittering hops than the extract recipe and boil for so long, add the flavour hops with this long left and the aroma hops with that long left.

    Meanwhile, they've given all the vital statistics of the beer (OG, colour (SRM) and bitterness (IBU)), so most AG brewers will be taking that info and reformulating using their preferred software anyway, and adjusting for AA% of the hops they have and the efficiency they usually achieve :?: ... so I really don't think AG and mini-mash brewers have reason to complain at not being given the information they need :?: ... it's just that brewers using those techniques are "expected" to be able to read/interpret a recipe more, which seems fair enough IMHO :?:

    Cheers, PhilB
     
  8. Aug 29, 2019 #8

    Justin Dean

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    Fair opinion thx. I think it is matter of focus that most AG brewers will think and with so many AG books probably will look elsewhere but for extract brewers. It is good so that is a good audience for this.
     
  9. Aug 29, 2019 #9

    prog99

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    I've looked at this before, I think it was their Orval clone the thad pear essence in it...
     
  10. Aug 29, 2019 #10

    PhilBrew

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    ... nope, pages 354-5, the Orval recipe does include bitter orange peel and ground coriander, and no Brett :?: ... but definitely no pear essence.

    Cheers, PhilB
     
  11. Aug 29, 2019 #11

    prog99

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    Ah, I had the older edition.
    The new version sounds even weirder then.

    I made their anchor steam though before I went full mash and it turned out well.
     
  12. Aug 30, 2019 #12

    PhilBrew

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    ... hmmm, I suppose if by "even weirder" you mean "still not like the guys at Orval", then yes ... but then they do explain their approach to cloning in the earlier parts of the book, making it clear that they're producing "taste alike" recipes rather than "brew alike" ones ( and in the case of that recipe for Orval, pointing out how since the tastes of that beer changes as it ages, their recipe is looking to clone the beer from an 8-9 month old bottle, in particular :?: ) ... they recognise that, as home-brewers, we'd find it difficult to procure the exact ingredients and to recreate the exact conditions that the original breweries use to make their beers, so they're (just) giving us recipes that aim to produce beers that look and taste like the originals ... hence they might suggest using ingredients that the brewer at the original breweries will never have used ... I'm pretty sure their Newcastle Brown Ale recipe doesn't suggest you should dip your dog's dangly bits into the brew, but if they felt it would help it taste more like "The One and Only" then they may well consider suggesting it* sick...

    Cheers, PhilB

    * actually, I'm quite sure they don't suggest using anything in their recipes that can't be procured from a decently stocked home-brew suppliers, after all running a home-brew shop is their "day job" :?:
     
  13. Aug 30, 2019 #13

    jceg316

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    I've got this book on kindle too. I must have bought it back in 2014 or 15, read it a few times for inspiration but never made anything from it. I then went through a phase of thinking cloning was a waste of time, that phase ended and I forgot I had this book for a while, but then wondered how accurate the recipes would be considering that breweries do change their recipes from time to time. Then I forgot about the book until now, I'm gonna have a flick through.
     
  14. Aug 30, 2019 #14

    phildo79

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    I downloaded this for free in pdf format. Think I got it, along with others, from pdfdrive.com
     
  15. Aug 30, 2019 #15

    Cheshire Cat

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    I've made over 30 different beers from this book. I'm an AG brewer and I found it great.
     

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