Coopers European Lager

[Meza]

Hello Euro fans, this is my first time doing the Coopers European Lager having heard a lot about it. Looking for a bit of advice on timings and temps please, hops, and diacetyl rests. I've got a temp chamber I can use to raise or lower the temp, but at the moment the FV is just in a cold spare room.

Day 0
I brewed long, by 1 litre. I pitched yeast at 21C and let it cool to 15C over 12 hours. It's been between 13C-15C for two weeks.

Day 14 - at ~15C
SG 1.014
Fairly carbonated. Tastes a bit sherberty

When should I drop the fermenter temp down for lagering? What temp and how long for?

At what point should I do a diacetyl rest, and how do I do that (temp and times?)

And what's the best plan for bottling?
A saaz hop tea sounds like an interesting addition, when should that be done?

thanks

 

[Pirate_Pete]

Hello Euro fans, this is my first time doing the Coopers European Lager having heard a lot about it. Looking for a bit of advice on timings and temps please, hops, and diacetyl rests. I've got a temp chamber I can use to raise or lower the temp, but at the moment the FV is just in a cold spare room.

Day 0
I brewed long, by 1 litre. I pitched yeast at 21C and let it cool to 15C over 12 hours. It's been between 13C-15C for two weeks.

Day 14 - at ~15C
SG 1.014
Fairly carbonated. Tastes a bit sherberty

When should I drop the fermenter temp down for lagering? What temp and how long for?

At what point should I do a diacetyl rest, and how do I do that (temp and times?)

And what's the best plan for bottling?
A saaz hop tea sounds like an interesting addition, when should that be done?

thanks

View attachment 17373

I usually use two packets of yeast and ferment it lower. However if you've only used one packet of yeast you've probably done the right thing by brewing it at 15C.
If it were me I'd drop the temp down to 3C or so for a week.
If you haven't added any hops up until now I'd make a hop tea and add it at bottling stage. 25 grams minimum, but you could go to 50grams if you want.

My last Euro Lager didn't carbonate all that well in the bottle.
A couple of things I can think of. Firstly the yeast had been used twice before.
Maybe I cold crashed it for too long.

 

[terrym]

I agree with @Pirate_Pete, you are doing well to keep it going with one packet of yeast at 15*C. However there is still some way to go. I managed to get 1.007 and 1.009 for this kit. My advice is to leave it alone at 15*C until it has obviously stopped or nearly stopped then raise the temperature to 19/20*C for 2/3 days for the diacetyl rest. And if it restarts the fermentation leave it alone until its properly finished. Then either bottle, carb up then lager in the bottle, or bulk lager for a few weeks, then package. If you leave it lagering in bulk you may have to add fresh yeast to get it to carb up. Others may know more about that then me. Personally would I do the lagering in the bottle. And you could add the hop tea before you bottled. Finally I agree with Coopers when they advise that this is better for keeping.

 

[marshbrewer]

I agree, I remember doing this kit and initially it tasted pantaloons, but after a few weeks in a cold shed outside, it was pretty good.

 

[Sandimas]

I agree, I remember doing this kit and initially it tasted pantaloons, but after a few weeks in a cold shed outside, it was pretty good.

Think the instructions say it needs something like 8-12 weeks conditioining.

It's a lager so it won't be very good to start with. I'm always impatient and taste one every few weeks, can confirm that Coopers European takes about 3 months to come good, but Coopers Australian was good after only a few weeks (lager yeast vs ale yeast).

Regarding hops, Saaz is a good option, as is Hallertau: 25g in a hop tea to make the kit up then another 25g dry hop works for me.

 

[terrym]

Regarding hops, Saaz is a good option, as is Hallertau: 25g in a hop tea to make the kit up then another 25g dry hop works for me.

Also Motueka as an alternative which I have used
However the trouble with dry hopping long term beers is that the impact of the dry hop tends to slowly disappear, so that after about 4 months it is almost gone. Just like the Coopers 86 Day Pilsner I am slowly getting through at present (which, incidently, is not as good as the Euro lager imo)

 

[Pirate_Pete]

I agree with @Pirate_Pete, you are doing well to keep it going with one packet of yeast at 15*C. However there is still some way to go. I managed to get 1.007 and 1.009 for this kit. My advice is to leave it alone at 15*C until it has obviously stopped or nearly stopped then raise the temperature to 19/20*C for 2/3 days for the diacetyl rest. And if it restarts the fermentation leave it alone until its properly finished. Then either bottle, carb up then lager in the bottle, or bulk lager for a few weeks, then package. If you leave it lagering in bulk you may have to add fresh yeast to get it to carb up. Others may know more about that then me. Personally would I do the lagering in the bottle. And you could add the hop tea before you bottled. Finally I agree with Coopers when they advise that this is better for keeping.

I only got mine down to 1.014 too. That's why I would have thought it was done.
I did think about my post later and I think you're right Terry, the temperature should be raised for a few days.
I probably bulk lagered mine for too long last time. The carbonation is under whelming. OK but not as good as I'd hoped.

I opened an 86 Day pilsner last night. It's been in the bottle for 12 weeks.
I'm just finishing a batch of Euro Lager and I'm struggling to tell them apart to be honest.
The Euro Lager would have been six months old and I have one or two bottles left.
I thought the hops held up quite well in that time. Both had Saaz added which is probably why they're so similar.

 

[terrym]

I opened an 86 Day pilsner last night. It's been in the bottle for 12 weeks.
I'm just finishing a batch of Euro Lager and I'm struggling to tell them apart to be honest.
The Euro Lager would have been six months old and I have one or two bottles left.
I thought the hops held up quite well in that time. Both had Saaz added which is probably why they're so similar.

I found something on Coopers kit IBUs some time back. In the can the Euro lager is 340 (same as the AuPA) and the 86 Pils is 490. Maybe that's why I preferred the Euro lager.

 

[HoppySpadge]

can confirm that Coopers European takes about 3 months to come good...

Just my 2 cents to this thread...I did one of these last year. I was used to brewing Ale so I drank it within 3 months and didn't think much of it. However, about 9 months later I found a bottle in the depths of my shed and wow! It was excellent - no comparison to the bottles I had drunk within the first 3 months. So, yes, IME you've got to keep this for a min of 3 months.

 

[Gary022]

Hi all

I’ve just returned to the homebrew scene and thought I’d get some beers stocked for the summer and started with this euro lager.

Did as per instructions just made it 22l instead of 23l. Pitched yeast at 24c and laid the coopers fermenter to rest in my spare room cupboard which was sitting lovely and cool at 13c. After a couple of days we got lift off and I saw a nice layer of white foam on the top but no current sulphur/egg smell some people on here have mentioned.

My question is that I’ve noticed my back cupboard has dropped down to around the 11c mark and seems to be sticking there. I’ve wrapped a couple of towels around the sides of the fermenter in an attempt to insulate it but I figured I couldn’t complete cover as it would need air and I wouldn’t want to suffocate it. Do you guys think I should bide my time at 11c and see what happens or try and move it somewhere slightly warmer. Tomorrow is day 7 so I’d imagine there’s still a fair while to go.

 

[terrym]

If you have only used one packet of the kit yeast then you are probably on the limit at 11*C, perhaps beyond it. I suggest you leave it and see how things progress. Assuming you have an airlock fitted and its still bubbling then you should be OK. When it stops bubbling move it into a warmer place say 19/20*C. If the airlock starts again leave alone. When it stops bubbling take an SG reading. Hopefully its done. In any case you should leave it at the higher temperature for 2/3 days for the diacetyl rest.
And insulation only slows down the rate of heat loss, it doesn't stop it. So sooner or later your towels become ineffective.

 

[Gary022]

If you have only used one packet of the kit yeast then you are probably on the limit at 11*C, perhaps beyond it. I suggest you leave it and see how things progress. Assuming you have an airlock fitted and its still bubbling then you should be OK. When it stops bubbling move it into a warmer place say 19/20*C. If the airlock starts again leave alone. When it stops bubbling take an SG reading. Hopefully its done. In any case you should leave it at the higher temperature for 2/3 days for the diacetyl rest.
And insulation only slows down the rate of heat loss, it doesn't stop it. So sooner or later your towels become ineffective.

Ok. Unfortunately I don’t have an airlock as it’s in the coopers fermenting vessel but I’m going to do as you say and let it be till Sunday and then take a reading and see what it’s saying. I did notice on the instructions it said colder fermentation temperatures result in a longer processs so I’m hopefull I’ll get away with it even if it takes an extra week.

Once it’s seems to have stopped I’m planning on switching it into a different cupboard that has central heating pipework so should be fluctuating 16-20c in there for a couple of days. Then bottle it and leave bottles in that same warm cupboard for a week before firing them into my loft or garage to forget about them for a few months

 

[terrym]

@Gary022
OK. Different suggestion in view of what you have said, but based on you packaging beer that has properly fermented out in primary, so you don't end up with a potential for gushers or worse bottle bombs. So, take an SG reading now. If its around 1.010 its nearly done. If its nearer 1.020 (as is possible given the low fermenting temperatures) you still have some way to go. If its the lower reading move it into the warm until the SG readings are stable which indicates its done. Then move back into a cold place for a couple of days, anything just above O*C is ideal but otherwise your cupboard is fine, to help to clear your beer before you bottle. At this stage bottle your beer. However if its at the higher SG reading leave it in the cold but take an SG reading after a couple of days. If its still the same which indicates its probably stalled I would move it into the warm place. If its going down repeat until SG stops then move into the warm place as for others, then when its finally bottomed out crash cool to clear.
When you have bottled your beer you want to give it longer than one week to ensure the priming sugar has been consumed. This is especially important if the beer is almost clear because there is less yeast to carb up. I would go for two weeks to make sure.
At the end of the day my suggestion will take longer than what you have proposed but you will have beer that has the best chance of being properly fermented out, has minimal yeast in the bottles, and has carbed up properly. The extra few days now are worth it given you are going to store your beer for some time
And if it helps I just dunk my sanitised hydrometer into the beer to take an SG reading, its good enough for me, and means I'm not fiddling about taking samples.

 

[Gary022]

@Gary022
OK. Different suggestion in view of what you have said, but based on you packaging beer that has properly fermented out in primary, so you don't end up with a potential for gushers or worse bottle bombs. So, take an SG reading now. If its around 1.010 its nearly done. If its nearer 1.020 (as is possible given the low fermenting temperatures) you still have some way to go. If its the lower reading move it into the warm until the SG readings are stable which indicates its done. Then move back into a cold place for a couple of days, anything just above O*C is ideal but otherwise your cupboard is fine, to help to clear your beer before you bottle. At this stage bottle your beer. However if its at the higher SG reading leave it in the cold but take an SG reading after a couple of days. If its still the same which indicates its probably stalled I would move it into the warm place. If its going down repeat until SG stops then move into the warm place as for others, then when its finally bottomed out crash cool to clear.
When you have bottled your beer you want to give it longer than one week to ensure the priming sugar has been consumed. This is especially important if the beer is almost clear because there is less yeast to carb up. I would go for two weeks to make sure.
At the end of the day my suggestion will take longer than what you have proposed but you will have beer that has the best chance of being properly fermented out, has minimal yeast in the bottles, and has carbed up properly. The extra few days now are worth it given you are going to store your beer for some time
And if it helps I just dunk my sanitised hydrometer into the beer to take an SG reading, its good enough for me, and means I'm not fiddling about taking samples.

Ok thanks for the advice I’ll let you know how goes.

I’m in no rush for this beer to finish anyway as the other 2 kits I have are a cerveza and a Canadian blonde which will both require warmer climates up here in sunny Scotland unless I bite the bullet and invest in a heating belt.

 

[terrym]

Ok thanks for the advice I’ll let you know how goes.

I’m in no rush for this beer to finish anyway as the other 2 kits I have are a cerveza and a Canadian blonde which will both require warmer climates up here in sunny Scotland unless I bite the bullet and invest in a heating belt.

I use a water bath like this.
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66407
And if you want to improve the beer from one can kits first try extra hops either as a dry hop or as hop tea. I have used Saaz, Motueka and Hallertau in my Coopers Euro lager and Pilsners. I get my hops from CML as do others on here https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk The main objective is to enhance hop flavour and aroma which is lost in the kit manufacturing process.
And the next step in improving a kit is this
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/simple-kit-plus-mini-mash-method-to-improve-a-kit.52938/

 

[Gary022]

Day 7 for my euro lager. It’s OG was 1040 and my current gravity is 1028.

Going to leave it in the cold cupboard and check again on Sunday evening to see if there’s been any change and if not I’ll look to moving it towards warmer climates. I’m happy enough for it to take its time as good things come to those who wait

 

[terrym]

Day 7 for my euro lager. It’s OG was 1040 and my current gravity is 1028.

Going to leave it in the cold cupboard and check again on Sunday evening to see if there’s been any change and if not I’ll look to moving it towards warmer climates. I’m happy enough for it to take its time as good things come to those who wait

If you ferment at low temperatures again its always a good idea to double up on the quantity of lager yeast. To get round that problem many lager kits are supplied with ale yeasts so you ferment at ale temperatures and don't need the extra yeast. Alternatively some on here use a Nottingham ale yeast (alias GV12/Wilko Ale???) to ferment at about 16*C to create a 'pseudo lager'. Others use a Kolsch yeast like this which will go to 15*C https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/yeast-specs

 

[Gary022]

Ok update on the lager. I’ve moved it into a cupboard where my central heating pipework runs down from loft and it seems to sitting at around 15-16c. I’ve taken multiple readings and it is still fermenting but just a bit slower than I expected. Is there a maximum amount of time I can leave it in the the fermenting vessel before I risk having no yeast left to carbonate? Tomorrow (06/02/19) will be the 3 week mark and it looks like it might need atleast a week more..

23/01/19 - 1040 OG
27/01/19 - 1019
30/01/19 - 1016
02/02/19 - 1014
05/01/19 - 1012

It’s getting close but I’ve read this kit should go down as low as 1005?

 

[terrym]

Its going down, which is fine
It will take as long as it takes.
It could well go down to 1.007 or possibly even lower.
In my view it won't do it any harm at this late stage to put it in a warmer place say 19/20*C, which might speed things up if thats what you want.
However bear in mind that when its finished and carbed up its best to leave it to condition for about three months. Even the kit instructions tell you that !

 

[Gary022]

So it’s been 2 weeks and a day bottled with 1.5 coopers carb drops per 500ml bottle and has sat in my warm cupboard.

Thought I better sample one to make sure it had carbonated and well.. it barely has .

Zero head with a few bubbles fizzing up from the laser etched glass. Will this improve when I “lager” the beer for the next 10 weeks in the cool/cold loft or should I consider adding more drops to the bottles

Ps the taste was very pleasant a little sweeter than I expected but good