Cost of the boil.

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In my opinion it does break the trade descriptions act. But they seem to call all large "shaker " style glasses pints even though they arent.
Weirdly some places do have proper pint glasses but they are always dimple pint glasses which are a rarity in the UK now.
Real pints cost even more.
Regarding Beard and Walking sandals bars, the way they go on about craft beer here you'd think they invented it, much the same with Wellington coffee the best in the world. Neither their beer or coffee is the best. But any port in a storm.
Don't get me started on they are always serving the beer ice cold.
Aagghh!
Ice cold beer, yep what is the point if you can't tell what you're drinking?
And @The-Engineer-That-Brews,
But I bet you wear socks with those sandals.🧦🤭 😉
 

Agentgonzo

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I've experimented with this latest brew.
In theory, "you don't need a rigorous boil" as long as the boil is sufficiently agitating the hops, and "the need for an uncovered boil is a myth" because all the bad volatiles (DMS etc) have a sufficiently low boiling point that they still get driven off past the lid.

Anyway, long story short, I left the lid on the Grainfather today (it still has a 2" hole in it that steam escaped from). With the insulated jacket for the boiler, I ran at 35% power for the boil today.

Let's see how it turned out. (I didn't do this to save money, just curious whether it affects the beer)
I bottled the above beer this evening. It's turned out pretty darn clear out of the primary (I don't cold crash), and certainly add clear as any of my other brews.

It tasted as I expected it to. No flavours of creamed corn, boiled vegetables or any if the flavours associated with DMS. I'll post again here in a few weeks when I open the first bottle, but from the looks of it so far, it's come out like any other beer, despite the reduced boil vigor. 🍻

IMG_20220510_205722.jpg
 

RoomWithABrew

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@Agentgonzo

All my boils on my guten have been with the lid on but I do use a condenser, I get a fine boil at 25% power. I haven't noticed any off flavours. I do smell the DMS in the air and in the water collected from the condenser so it certainly gets out of the kettle okay. Not sure I'm going to shorten my boil to any less than an hour though. Regardless of the current suggested trend by some channels on youtube.
IMG_20220313_143253.jpg

This photo during whirlpool so no jacket in use and condenser not running. I do have the jacket on during the mash and boil and also use a towel on the lid and the first part of the condenser during the boil. I tend to mash with the lid on but not the condenser.
I have needed to adjust my recipes as I only get about 0.7 litre boil off per hour.
 

Eskdale

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I bottled the above beer this evening. It's turned out pretty darn clear out of the primary (I don't cold crash), and certainly add clear as any of my other brews.

It tasted as I expected it to. No flavours of creamed corn, boiled vegetables or any if the flavours associated with DMS. I'll post again here in a few weeks when I open the first bottle, but from the looks of it so far, it's come out like any other beer, despite the reduced boil vigor. 🍻

View attachment 68149
Enter it in a comp, see what the judges think of it. That will give you a more concise feed back.
 

Cwrw666

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Just done a pilsner and checked my smart meter before and after - came out at £1.73 after subtracting the 7p/hr normal for running lights, fridge and freezer.
That was with a shortened boil - 45 minutes instead of the 80 minutes I normally do.
Assuming the beer comes out ok I'm happy with that. Guess I'll find out in 4 weeks time...
 

MrRook

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Just done a pilsner and checked my smart meter before and after - came out at £1.73 after subtracting the 7p/hr normal for running lights, fridge and freezer.
That was with a shortened boil - 45 minutes instead of the 80 minutes I normally do.
Assuming the beer comes out ok I'm happy with that. Guess I'll find out in 4 weeks time...
I recently did an all-grain pilsner with a 30 minute boil that turned out fine.
 

foxbat

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When I built my power controller and was then able to turn it down from 2.4kW to 1.6ish I noticed that my boil off rate was identical to before.

I'm not planning to shorten my hour boil though not least because all my recipes and calculations are based on that. But also because for me it's not time wasted because I've got so much prep and cleaning to get on with while that clock ticks down.
 

foxy

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Two ways of interpreting, 'cost'. Cost in a couple of dollars or cost to the finished beer.
The reason for the boil is for a number of things, drives off DMS and other malt and hop volatiles, isomerisation of the hops, lowering pH, sterilising the wort, coagulation and precipitation of proteins, which needs to be a violent boil to achieve this goal as it is these proteins which negatively affect the foam stability of the finished beer.
Precipitation of these proteins makes sure they end up forming part of the trub is vital if you want to end up with a clean, clear beer with good head retention.

So if you end up with some haze in your beer lack of head, or head retention look at the vigour of the boil.
So for a couple of dollars spread over 35 or 40 pints is a very small price to pay.

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Cwrw666

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So if you end up with some haze in your beer lack of head, or head retention look at the vigour of the boil.
So for a couple of dollars spread over 35 or 40 pints is a very small price to pay.
Fair enough, but there's presumably a minimum length of boil that achieves all these things with the equipment you have, which very well might vary for different people. No harm in finding out what it is.
 

Sadfield

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Fair enough, but there's presumably a minimum length of boil that achieves all these things with the equipment you have, which very well might vary for different people. No harm in finding out what it is.
Spot on.

The issue I take, with Dave Heath et al, those that find that point and are happy with it, is then claiming that their chosen point and accepted end product, is now the standard. That everyone can follow without issue. That those that don't, including the whole commercial brewing industry, are doing something wholly unnecessary, outdated and won't notice the difference. That the extra 30-60 minutes of extra energy being applied to maintain a boil, makes no difference to the quality of the end product. Which is clearly nonsense if you've ever cooked anything. I could make a pork casserole that's nutritious and safe to eat in 30 minutes, but will it be better after 90?
 
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Spot on.

The issue I take, with Dave Heath et al, those that find that point and are happy with it, is then claiming that their chosen point and accepted end product, is now the standard. That everyone can follow without issue. That those that don't, including the whole commercial brewing industry, are doing something wholly unnecessary, outdated and won't notice the difference. That the extra 30-60 minutes of extra energy being applied to maintain a boil, makes no difference to the quality of the end product. Which is clearly nonsense if you've ever cooked anything. I could make a pork casserole that's nutritious and safe to eat in 30 minutes, but will it be better after 90?
I could cook a steak for 30 minutes a side or 5 minutes a side, they are both edible which you prefer is personal preference.
 

Sadfield

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I could cook a steak for 30 minutes a side or 5 minutes a side, they are both edible which you prefer is personal preference.
Exactly, there's a difference. Yet many claim that shaving 30-60 minutes off the boil makes absolutely no difference to the end product. If one is happy with the outcome, great, but that doesn't mean everyone else would be, or that it is good advice. You could also make steak tartare, but if you don't know what you're doing, end up being ill.
 
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foxy

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Fair enough, but there's presumably a minimum length of boil that achieves all these things with the equipment you have, which very well might vary for different people. No harm in finding out what it is.
Not something I can help you with, if you want to go up a few levels in your hobby all the information is out there. You wont have to take my word for it.There are plenty of books out to read, Boulton, Quain, Bamforth. Even Charlie Bamforths podcasts are a wealth of free knowledge, or you could visit Pro Brewer forum for more excellent free information.

I could cook a steak for 30 minutes a side or 5 minutes a side, they are both edible which you prefer is personal preference.
That is a poor analogy, all the commercial beers you drink will have been boiled, and boiled hard for an hour minimum. The only difference in preference for the consumer is in the recipe.
 
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Not something I can help you with, if you want to go up a few levels in your hobby all the information is out there. You wont have to take my word for it.There are plenty of books out to read, Boulton, Quain, Bamforth. Even Charlie Bamforths podcasts are a wealth of free knowledge, or you could visit Pro Brewer forum for more excellent free information.


That is a poor analogy, all the commercial beers you drink will have been boiled, and boiled hard for an hour minimum. The only difference in preference for the consumer is in the recipe.
As I’ve repeated said I boil for 60 minutes (down from 90 minutes when I joined the forum) as that is my process that works for me. But if another person boils for 30 minutes and they enjoy the beer then it works for them.
 

foxy

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As I’ve repeated said I boil for 60 minutes (down from 90 minutes when I joined the forum) as that is my process that works for me. But if another person boils for 30 minutes and they enjoy the beer then it works for them.
I am not addressing the length of your boil, nor am I trying to change someone who wants to boil at 10, 20 or 30 minutes just pointing out the reasons for the boil. If anyone wants to improve their brewing skill the information is out there on line and in books.
Even though majority boil for 60 to 90 minutes they should be aware that a simmer is not a vigorous boil. It is the heat and vigorous movement of the wort which causes the coagulation and precipitation of proteins.
 
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Just to be aware that roasted and dark coloured grains can contain acrylamide , I was taught that 10% a boil off and a minimum of 40 mins vigorous boiling removes it . This was for commercial kit and I don't know how this translates to our small kettles , but to me it makes sense not to unduly cut the boil time if you're using roasted barley/malt or other coloured malts/adjuncts. As I write this I'm sipping a coffee , which also contains acrylamides , but I suppose theres no point , if for the sake of a few minutes boil time, that you're not removing it
..
 
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