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Covid-19 the second wave.

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MmmBeer

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A common Health and Safety hierarchy, used when preparing risk assessments is ERIC PD

Eliminate
Reduce
Isolate
Control
Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
Discipline

The higher up the list a control measure is, the more effective it is likely to be. As you can see uso of PPE is very low on the list and is usually regarded as a last resort. Therefore by Isolate staff from customers, by means of a suitably designed screen overrides the necessity for PPE.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Well, they are mingling! If they can't pass each other at more than a 2m distance, which they can't, even if they did care, they should wear masks! Whether Tesco's at fault, or the employees are at fault, or both are at fault, does not matter. It's happening. It IS disgusting.
I have a feeling you are suffering from selective reading as I said my son works in Tesco they are not allowed to mingle in the till areas or any other area without face coverings they may be doing it in yours but your OP suggests this is going on in all stores and I am telling you it isn't, I think you need to take your compliant further up the management ladder as the person you complained to is obviously ignoring you or they are not taking it seriously which I find very hard to believe considering the rules in place at my son's store
 
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LED_ZEP

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I just want to wish everyone well over the next few months and hope we can look back in the summer and say thank f*ck that's over.

I think I did the correct thing to prepare for a new round of covid in this country (along with the other major change in leaving the EU) a couple of months back and sold most of the shares I have in British companies. I've then bought US (as they seem to have made a sensible political change) and I've seen the benefits ever since.
Quite unusual historically but the market seems to like the fact that the Democrats look like they have also won a senate majority to go along with the White House, I wonder why given the last four years and the last in particular?
Now where did I put my bleach it's time for my injection.
 

simon12

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I received a positive test result on Monday. I was telling the track and trace guy last night that the only time in the last 2 weeks that I've been indoors with anyone other than those I live with was when I collected a turkey (click and collect) on Christmas Eve. And my wife and kids didn't go anywhere at all either. I met my sister twice out of doors only for a walk and a bike ride, but she is the only person outside of my immediate family I've seen (she tested positive a day before me). And I didn't get close to her. My conclusion is that this new variant must be incredibly contagious
Thank you for sharing I sincerely hope you are OK. I agree this new strain does seem to be much more contagious, to put it into numbers using hospital admissions unless stated. In the 1st wave with no restrictions yet in place doubling time was around 5 days in England as a whole, in the second wave in the north west only had a doubling time that briefly peaked at 12 days when some of it was in tier 3 already while swale during lockdown 2 hit a 1 week doubling time in the week to 10/11/2020.
 

Manners

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Thank you for sharing I sincerely hope you are OK. I agree this new strain does seem to be much more contagious, to put it into numbers using hospital admissions unless stated. In the 1st wave with no restrictions yet in place doubling time was around 5 days in England as a whole, in the second wave in the north west only had a doubling time that briefly peaked at 12 days when some of it was in tier 3 already while swale during lockdown 2 hit a 1 week doubling time in the week to 10/11/2020.
You do realise the tests used are proven to be unreliable and likely to give false positives for a whole host of reasons dont you?

Quite frankly unless somebody is a front line healthcare worker or has to leave the house for (key) work, I fail to see why anyone else would get a test. If you have symptoms and you can, stay at home and do the time- don’t feed the hysteria machine. Most of us shouldn’t have seen anyone or been anywhere to have to notify anyone else, so what difference does it make in that instance?

Obviously personal situations vary (Im not having a specific dig at anyone here and I’m generalising in what I say above), but from what Ive seen its being used as something to drum up a little drama and be part of the club- ‘I’ve Tested positive for covid’. Great, you had a bit of a raised temperature and a little cough. Or didnt even realise you had it like 90% of individuals affected. The most dangerous part of this situation for the vast majority is the fear it is generating and psychological damage being caused by the MSM. People are literally afraid of stepping out of their front doors for fear of being struck down dead, for a virus that most will shake off with a few days in bed.
 

Oneflewover

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You do realise the tests used are proven to be unreliable and likely to give false positives for a whole host of reasons dont you?

Quite frankly unless somebody is a front line healthcare worker or has to leave the house for (key) work, I fail to see why anyone else would get a test. If you have symptoms and you can, stay at home and do the time- don’t feed the hysteria machine. Most of us shouldn’t have seen anyone or been anywhere to have to notify anyone else, so what difference does it make in that instance?

Obviously personal situations vary (Im not having a specific dig at anyone here and I’m generalising in what I say above), but from what Ive seen its being used as something to drum up a little drama and be part of the club- ‘I’ve Tested positive for covid’. Great, you had a bit of a raised temperature and a little cough. Or didnt even realise you had it like 90% of individuals affected. The most dangerous part of this situation for the vast majority is the fear it is generating and psychological damage being caused by the MSM. People are literally afraid of stepping out of their front doors for fear of being struck down dead, for a virus that most will shake off with a few days in bed.
I think that you are completely missing the point. Lots of people will be going around with 'symptoms'. But symptoms of what? They are so varied and inconsistently experienced. Unless you have the test you won't know for sure, and will potentially be spreading the virus far and wide. At the point I had the test the kids were due to go back to school. Do we send them if I've got a bit of a cough? What about nipping to the supermarket despite having a headache and feeling rough? How about going to work when the boss is putting pressure on to turn up? Testing is critical in controlling the virus, people need to know in order to make the right decisions.
 

Manners

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I think that you are completely missing the point. Lots of people will be going around with 'symptoms'. But symptoms of what? They are so varied and inconsistently experienced. Unless you have the test you won't know for sure, and will potentially be spreading the virus far and wide. At the point I had the test the kids were due to go back to school. Do we send them if I've got a bit of a cough? What about nipping to the supermarket despite having a headache and feeling rough? How about going to work when the boss is putting pressure on to turn up? Testing is critical in controlling the virus, people need to know in order to make the right decisions.
You’re being obtuse. like I said- personal situations vary, kids going to school is one of them.

There are the main symptoms listed on the NHS and .gov websites. If you have one, or all, of these - you stay in your house as per isolation rules and with the caveats I mentioned. For the people who have been furloughed/working from home/unemployed/unemployable with no where else to go, why use up resources when you cant go anywhere anyway?! Spread it to who?

if you are genuinely feeling ‘that rough’ (and it’s not down to consumption of a few too many Pints of a super strength brew) why not stay and home and ask your neighbour/mate/family to nip to Tescos for you?! If you’re not displaying any of the advised symptoms the Government advice is not to get tested. They have assessed the risk.

The ‘spread it to all and sundry’ is part of the fear message that has been created and constantly re-iterated to us. Do you honestly think that if you follow the guidelines and do the face, space and washing your hands the risk is that high? The evidence says otherwise - every supermarket would be short staffed, every distribution centre closed and every other area where people have to congregate for the ‘right’ reasons would be flooded. But they aren’t.
 

Oneflewover

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You’re being obtuse. like I said- personal situations vary, kids going to school is one of them.

There are the main symptoms listed on the NHS and .gov websites. If you have one, or all, of these - you stay in your house as per isolation rules and with the caveats I mentioned. For the people who have been furloughed/working from home/unemployed/unemployable with no where else to go, why use up resources when you cant go anywhere anyway?! Spread it to who?

if you are genuinely feeling ‘that rough’ (and it’s not down to consumption of a few too many Pints of a super strength brew) why not stay and home and ask your neighbour/mate/family to nip to Tescos for you?! If you’re not displaying any of the advised symptoms the Government advice is not to get tested. They have assessed the risk.

The ‘spread it to all and sundry’ is part of the fear message that has been created and constantly re-iterated to us. Do you honestly think that if you follow the guidelines and do the face, space and washing your hands the risk is that high? The evidence says otherwise - every supermarket would be short staffed, every distribution centre closed and every other area where people have to congregate for the ‘right’ reasons would be flooded. But they aren’t.
Obtuse is a nice way of you saying that I'm being stupid? Please don't insult me. I suspect that your misguided comments stem from a lack of understanding about how a large part of the population live their lives, but please do provide the evidence that you refer to. The evidence I've seen suggests that infection rates are soaring despite some pretty hefty restrictions. Probably, in my opinion, due to lots of people not knowing that they are carrying the virus, either because they are asymptomatic or because they have relatively mild symptoms.
 

Covrich

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You’re being obtuse. like I said- personal situations vary, kids going to school is one of them.

There are the main symptoms listed on the NHS and .gov websites. If you have one, or all, of these - you stay in your house as per isolation rules and with the caveats I mentioned. For the people who have been furloughed/working from home/unemployed/unemployable with no where else to go, why use up resources when you cant go anywhere anyway?! Spread it to who?

if you are genuinely feeling ‘that rough’ (and it’s not down to consumption of a few too many Pints of a super strength brew) why not stay and home and ask your neighbour/mate/family to nip to Tescos for you?! If you’re not displaying any of the advised symptoms the Government advice is not to get tested. They have assessed the risk.

The ‘spread it to all and sundry’ is part of the fear message that has been created and constantly re-iterated to us. Do you honestly think that if you follow the guidelines and do the face, space and washing your hands the risk is that high? The evidence says otherwise - every supermarket would be short staffed, every distribution centre closed and every other area where people have to congregate for the ‘right’ reasons would be flooded. But they aren’t.

Because it is more about other people.

My Work colleague had symptoms the other week and I had been in contact with him a few days before.. I would want to know whether I shoudl isolate as a risk to pass it on to my kids when they are dropped off or my support bubble or even my Ex who is a front line worker..

Its not about you staying in doors its as much if more about how you can affect others you may have been in contact with
 

Manners

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Because it is more about other people.

My Work colleague had symptoms the other week and I had been in contact with him a few days before.. I would want to know whether I shoudl isolate as a risk to pass it on to my kids when they are dropped off or my support bubble or even my Ex who is a front line worker..

Its not about you staying in doors its as much if more about how you can affect others you may have been in contact with
if you are working in the proximity of others you must be in the key worker box, therefore if you are liable to infect others you should get a test. The rest of the population who are sat at home shouldnt be seeing anybody (apart from the exceptions) so therefore will not infect anyone else
 

Manners

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Obtuse is a nice way of you saying that I'm being stupid? Please don't insult me. I suspect that your misguided comments stem from a lack of understanding about how a large part of the population live their lives, but please do provide the evidence that you refer to. The evidence I've seen suggests that infection rates are soaring despite some pretty hefty restrictions. Probably, in my opinion, due to lots of people not knowing that they are carrying the virus, either because they are asymptomatic or because they have relatively mild symptoms.
No, if I had meant stupid I would have said it. You either missed or chose not to reference the point where I explained there were reasons why it may not apply to everyone.

A misunderstanding of how the vast majority of people live? Oh really, because you are more supremely qualified are you? please enlighten us all as to what gives you a greater understanding? I do understand about the necessity to earn money, which again comes down to having the symptoms or not- if you don’t the Government says to carry on as normal. I’m not preaching my own version here, this is what the Government has stated.

The evidence is clear- we have a surge because there is a mutated version of the virus which is believed to have started in London where some of the population have been ignoring the rules (as regularly reported) and potentially not helped by the getting together at Christmas as per the rules. PLUS we are in standard cold and flu season that happens every year with the joys of central heating and lack of ventilation.

But the shops that are allowed to be are still open, packages keep coming and the vast majority of schools stayed open through the last lockdown and tiered system. Obviously the schools being open has recently changed, but this was not due to the number of actual, real outbreaks but rather the fear of them.

I’ll repeat - In my opinion unless you need to be in contact with people due to your job or personal situation (which could include needing the covid isolation payment if you will miss out on wages), and have symptoms there is no need to get a test. Stay at home and isolate as per procedure. Otherwise we will still be locked down until somebody in Government deems the POTENTIAL for loss of life is below whatever level is deemed ‘acceptable’, because this isn’t going away. And the potential forecasts are what are driving the lockdowns.
 

Oneflewover

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No, if I had meant stupid I would have said it. You either missed or chose not to reference the point where I explained there were reasons why it may not apply to everyone.

A misunderstanding of how the vast majority of people live? Oh really, because you are more supremely qualified are you? please enlighten us all as to what gives you a greater understanding? I do understand about the necessity to earn money, which again comes down to having the symptoms or not- if you don’t the Government says to carry on as normal. I’m not preaching my own version here, this is what the Government has stated.

The evidence is clear- we have a surge because there is a mutated version of the virus which is believed to have started in London where some of the population have been ignoring the rules (as regularly reported) and potentially not helped by the getting together at Christmas as per the rules. PLUS we are in standard cold and flu season that happens every year with the joys of central heating and lack of ventilation.

But the shops that are allowed to be are still open, packages keep coming and the vast majority of schools stayed open through the last lockdown and tiered system. Obviously the schools being open has recently changed, but this was not due to the number of actual, real outbreaks but rather the fear of them.

I’ll repeat - In my opinion unless you need to be in contact with people due to your job or personal situation (which could include needing the covid isolation payment if you will miss out on wages), and have symptoms there is no need to get a test. Stay at home and isolate as per procedure. Otherwise we will still be locked down until somebody in Government deems the POTENTIAL for loss of life is below whatever level is deemed ‘acceptable’, because this isn’t going away. And the potential forecasts are what are driving the lockdowns.
Thanks for your opinion. Suggest you get some manners. Best wishes.
 

Covrich

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if you are working in the proximity of others you must be in the key worker box, therefore if you are liable to infect others you should get a test. The rest of the population who are sat at home shouldnt be seeing anybody (apart from the exceptions) so therefore will not infect anyone else

Nope I am not a key worker but my company is essential business and my need to be on site at various times is requried.

Regardless of lockdown or any tier system this has been the case. SO back in December. or August or even yesterday, if one of us exhibited symptoms, we'd need to know whether to isolate or not.

Just as I am a single parent the same applies for the 50% time I have my children and transport them back and I see my partner from my support bubble. My Kids have both had to isolate in periods when another kid has tested positive, so if my child was to exhibit symptoms then I would need to test them and isolate accordingly.. if they are negative I can proceed to work or my ex can proceed to Nurse.

I am no freak case here I am in situations which affect considerable amounts of the population so the need to test and keep people whom you have been in proximity too whether you are in lockdown or tier 1 is important.
 

Cheshire Cat

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To continue my theme of Britain being on a war status, during WW2 there were Air Raid Wardens who policed the blackout to ensure compliance. These were hated by a vast number of people but it worked. We need to better police the lockdown today as large numbers of people will not comply. Treat Covid like we treated the Luftwaffe.
 

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I have a feeling you are suffering from selective reading as I said my son works in Tesco they are not allowed to mingle in the till areas or any other area without face coverings they may be doing it in yours but your OP suggests this is going on in all stores and I am telling you it isn't, I think you need to take your compliant further up the management ladder as the person you complained to is obviously ignoring you or they are not taking it seriously which I find very hard to believe considering the rules in place at my son's store
My OP flaming well does NOT suggest an such thing. Here it is, jwith emphasis:

Appleyard said:
I was disgusted to see staff in my local Tesco not even wearing masks on the tills behind the counter... "we don't have to" because of the screens".
Edit: Re being selective, "I have a feeling you are suffering from selective answering".

Again: People should not just be doing what they are told is the minimum necessary, they should be doing everything that they can. If you disagree with that, I'd love to hear your reasons.

Hm?
 

simon12

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You do realise the tests used are proven to be unreliable and likely to give false positives for a whole host of reasons dont you?
Thats 1 reason I used hospital admissions, I agree a positive test result doesn't mean you are ill or will get ill but if they were totally false we should have seen a large no testing positive twice which we are not.
 

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My friend's parents are refusing the vaccine. She's really, upset, and so am I. Their logic is that they've never had a flu vaccine and have never had the flu. The I don't wear a seatbelt, I've never had a crash argument again which bellends use as a defence. Urghhh, she's not a dotty old cow, either, which would make it more understandable. Side-effect is that we now know her oldest daughter IS an anti-vaxxer and is starting to get into tripe like flat earth. One of the most depressing things about covid is finding out how thick people are.

I'm trying to get really good links to vitamin D studies for her because she was diagnosed as deficient over a year ago. Again you'd think there'd be a much stronger message out there to take it. That "How to Boost Your Immune System" thing on last night was absolute crap. And soooo slow.

 

Covrich

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My friend's parents are refusing the vaccine. She's really, upset, and so am I. Their logic is that they've never had a flu vaccine and have never had the flu. The I don't wear a seatbelt, I've never had a crash argument again which bellends use as a defence. Urghhh, she's not a dotty old cow, either, which would make it more understandable. Side-effect is that we now know her oldest daughter IS an anti-vaxxer and is starting to get into tripe like flat earth. One of the most depressing things about covid is finding out how thick people are.

I'm trying to get really good links to vitamin D studies for her because she was diagnosed as deficient over a year ago. Again you'd think there'd be a much stronger message out there to take it. That "How to Boost Your Immune System" thing on last night was absolute crap. And soooo slow.


It amazes me how much traction flat earth is getting from people.. and its utterly bonkers. I heard one guy say if the earth was a globe, we wouldn;t need to drive from scotland to london, he'd sit in a ball and roll down and use his brakes as he approached London
 

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