Crystal & Munich Malt in APA/AIPA?

[PhilBrew]

Hi NB

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is the obvious benchmark although at 5.6% it's a touch on the high side, they have a recipe here - 2 row with 8% 60L US caramel malt to 1.054 OG, Chico yeast (ie US-05/WLP001/1056) and a load of Cascade to 38IBU.

... that's interesting that they suggest only Cascade ... the Szamatulski's, in the Clone Brews book, provide a recipe for SNPA that has you bittering with Nugget and a 15 minute addition of Perle, which puts a definite "herbal" hint into the brew which I think is in SNPA and which I don't think I've ever got from Cascade

I've been sort of thinking around Anchor Liberty

... whilst I think Anchor Liberty Ale is much more likely to be all Cascade

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Sadfield]

It seems too strong for the style and too complicated, too for what (unless I'm mistaken) should be to the Americans what Best Bitter is to the Brits.

They don't have the session drinking culture of the British, favouring much lower volumes of stronger beer. Even Budweiser is 5% in the US (4.5% in the UK), so pale ales are typically aligned to stronger British ales and IPAs.

 

[An Ankoù]

They don't have the session drinking culture of the British, favouring much lower volumes of stronger beer. Even Budweiser is 5% in the US (4.5% in the UK), so pale ales are typically aligned to stronger British ales and IPAs.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too, but when I see quite a number of beers are sold in half-gallon (64 fl oz) bottles or growlers, I wonder whether that's universal. Sure there's not the same N England tradition of iron-foundry workers or miners going to rehdrate on 3% abv mild after a shift, but I wonder what the beery culture is really like on that side of the pond.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hi NB
... that's interesting that they suggest only Cascade ... the Szamatulski's, in the Clone Brews book, provide a recipe for SNPA that has you bittering with Nugget and a 15 minute addition of Perle, which puts a definite "herbal" hint into the brew which I think is in SNPA and which I don't think I've ever got from Cascade

Well Nugget was not released until 3 years after SNPA (celebrating its 40th birthday this year), so I'd be sceptical on that front. This suggests they use Magnum and Perle for bittering - perhaps they think that might be too exotic for US homebrewers, or maybe they've changed the recipe?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah, that's what I thought, too, but when I see quite a number of beers are sold in half-gallon (64 fl oz) bottles or growlers

I suspect part of that is tied up with the weird rules that each state has had traditionally on off-sales and pre-pack beer. But don't forget that 64ox is just over three of our pints...

 

[PhilBrew]

Well Nugget was not released until 3 years after SNPA (celebrating its 40th birthday this year), so I'd be sceptical on that front. This suggests they use Magnum and Perle for bittering - perhaps they think that might be too exotic for US homebrewers, or maybe they've changed the recipe?

... to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that the guys at Sierra Nevada don't know how to make SNPA ... but flavour contributions from commercial brewers' uses of ingredients and their practices don't always translate down to a homebrew scale.

I'm very confident that the Szamatulski's take a "taste alike" approach to producing their Clone Brew recipes, rather than a "brew alike" (using the same ingredients as the original brewers and expecting the same results, when translated to a much smaller scale) approach ... and I was just pointing out that they seem to have managed to reproduce the "herbal" hints that I sense in the bitterness of SNPA, but not in Liberty Ale (which tastes much more like it's been bittered with Cascade, to me at least).

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Sadfield]

Hi NB
... that's interesting that they suggest only Cascade ... the Szamatulski's, in the Clone Brews book, provide a recipe for SNPA that has you bittering with Nugget and a 15 minute addition of Perle, which puts a definite "herbal" hint into the brew which I think is in SNPA and which I don't think I've ever got from Cascade

... whilst I think Anchor Liberty Ale is much more likely to be all Cascade

Cheers, PhilB

They did use Perle and Magnum at some period, for bittering. Probably inevitable to see recipe changes over 40 years to accommodate harvests and cost fluctuations, when keeping a beer consistent over that time.

Anchor Liberty is also all Cascade but uses a British yeast strain.

 

[matt76]

Well Lagunitas is a good example of a classic West Coast IPA - it's 25 years old. And of course you'll get modern recipes for "old" styles - a recipe for say 18th-century porter is not going to start using Citra or Galaxy. But my sense is that if someone was to do a "modern" West Coast IPA, they'd still use some US caramel malt, but less than Lagunitas does.

But crystal use Stateside seems to have peaked with the IBU race of the early 2010s when you needed a more meaty grist to balance the bitterness, it's easy to forget that the New England thing only really started going mainstream in 2015 or so.

Hmm... yep... noted

One thing I'd not appreciated is your earlier point about the difference in intensity between US and UK Crystal. It makes me curious where Weyermann crystal malts sit (CaraXYZ) - although a bit more expensive, presumably they would be the same wherever you are so are more of a known quantity which is better if you're trying to tune a recipe...

(as opposed to generic regular/light/dark crystal repackaged by my LHBS from whichever source they're using this week )

 

[Northern_Brewer]

(as opposed to generic regular/light/dark crystal repackaged by my LHBS from whichever source they're using this week )

That's not inconsistency, it's "craft" ;-)

The more serious online places generally specify where their crystal comes from, because it makes sense for them to have a long-term relationship with one maltster that they get most of their stock through. BrewUK (no affiliation) are the only source I'm aware of for the Warminster floor-malted speciality malts, which include a home-grown Caramalt.