Diabetic home brewer.

Discussion in 'General Beer Brewing Discussion' started by ARTYCHOKE, May 25, 2019.

Help Support The Homebrew Forum UK by donating:

  1. May 25, 2019 #1

    ARTYCHOKE

    ARTYCHOKE

    ARTYCHOKE

    New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hi Guys
    I've brewed a lot of kits and was gearing up to start full mash brewing when devasted by various life calamities. Long story much shortened: I emerged a diabetic ! BANG..... I assume my days of seeking to brew & drink the ultimate beer must be severely hampered now but in truth, I don't know. I was never a big drinker, not even a regular one. I simply enjoy good flavours. Anyway, in seeking out in dire hope, some kind of healthy solution - as in solving a problem, I came across agave nectar. Before I reinvent the wheel, has anyone had any success with the stuff ? I favour the malty styles, particularly Porters if than gives any clues. Many thanks.
     
  2. May 25, 2019 #2

    -Bezza-

    -Bezza-

    -Bezza-

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,148
    Likes Received:
    492
    Location:
    Surrey
    Welcome.

    First post at 3am!?

    There are a few diabetics around here who can probably give you a few hints on how to brew things that work a little better for you.
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  3. May 26, 2019 #3

    Dutto

    Dutto

    Dutto

    Dutto

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Messages:
    6,468
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Location:
    East Lincolnshire
    Welcome to the Forum.

    I'm not diabetic myself, but I've brewed for a diabetic mate who loved lagers.

    As far as I am aware, being a diabetic means that all you have to do is to make low ABV brews and ensure that as many of the fermentable sugars as possible have been turned into alcohol. Low ABV Lagers are great for this.

    I would like to point out that my mate Mike died last September - but not as a result of his diabetes! I give you two quotes from his 40 years of coping with the problem:
    1. "I've never abused my body and I've always been careful with regard to being a diabetic." This is from the man who used to inject himself with insulin at the back of the pub whilst I went over to the bar to get us another couple of pints.
    2. "I've never bothered about my diabetes. I know when a coma is imminent and I just eat or drink something." Which is probably why the District Nurse nearly had kittens trying to level out his insulin dose when he became bed-ridden.
    Diabetes is truly a terrible ailment but my mate lived a full life and never let it stop him enjoying himself.

    RIP Mike - a friend for over 60 years who is sorely missed.
     
    ARTYCHOKE and Clint like this.
  4. May 26, 2019 #4

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    534
    Agave nectar is basically pure fructose, and it'll ferment out to alcohol in the same way as any simple sugar.

    The only difference when eating it normally is that it gets processed by the liver in the same way alcohol does so doesn't cause an insulin spike as dramatically as sucrose and dextrose. It's really going to be no benefit for brewing.

    When I see agave syrup touted as a healthy alternative to sugar it gets me fuming.
     
    ARTYCHOKE and Dutto like this.
  5. May 26, 2019 #5

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    Brittany, France
    If the question is about making decent beer with little or no residual sugars, you could try adding amyloglucosidase 300, available from The Malt Miller. Used according to the instructions it should make just about all the carbohydrate content available for fermentation leaving a highly attenuated beer with little body. The latter will need to be addressed, perhaps by adding oat flakes to some styles. Or perhaps some of the "hop bomb" beers don't need much body.
    In any case I used this to make a stout and a lager when I was trying to lose a ton or two with a very low carb diet. It gave me something to drink, but it wasn't the best beer I've ever tasted.
     
    ARTYCHOKE and Dutto like this.
  6. May 26, 2019 #6

    stz

    stz

    stz

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    141
    I'm not a diabetic and don't claim to fully understand the relationship between alcohol and diabetes. Anecdotally diabetic friends of mine drink quite normally, though none of them get silly anymore they will session 3-5 pints when on it. They prefer dry and fully attenuated drinks. Not sweet stuff. Lager, spirits, bone dry white wine.

    Beer can be attenuated high, low and somewhere in the middle. A lot of this is style dependent/appropriate. You might find the carbohydrate content in beers which have moderate or low attenuation makes it harder to control your blood sugar and this might mean you have to drink a lot less or a lot slower. Beers which are almost completely attenuated will have very few residual carbohydrates which might make it easier to indulge. Depending on your preference for certain styles this may mean you have to make some changes and/or accept some compromises in the search for perfection.

    Degree of attenuation is dependent on grain variety, mash profile and yeast selection. As said above process enzymes can be used to ensure full and complete conversion. These brews can be ... in my experience very cheap to make as you don't need a lot of points up front as you've none left at the back. If you wanted a 4% beer you'll only want 31 to start which is what ... 2.6kg of malt for 20L @ 79% efficiency? On the downside they taste like what they are, cheap, thin, suited to making lager or high alcohol products. If you push the abv up and try to get more interesting ... I've made brut IPAs a few times and they can start to taste like they are made of almost pure sugar. Rocket fuel. The last one I did I think I used a touch more of the enzyme than recommended and this sugar twang was worse than in the previous one, but both still finished below 0.

    Surprisingly though a lot of bigger (but not massive) breweries use these sorts of enzymes in making beer that you wouldn't expect to find high attenuation as a goal. They might do this because it allows them to use grist compositions which wouldn't normally work ... to save time in the mash tun, to improve run off, for cost and/or process reasons and/or to ensure a consistent final gravity. From the perspective of big breweries dextrines are the enemy of sessionability and I was very surprised to see the actual final gravity of a lot of 'classic' brews. Best bitters, stouts, porters etc, all at all 1.004 or thereabout. It makes them cheaper to make and easier to neck. The trick here is to use only enough of it to give an outcome somewhere in the middle. There are also a few different types, alpha and ß-amylase, alpha and ß-glucanase, there are also propitiatory and in house blends. They can be used at different points with different outcomes in different amounts for different times. It is a skill and discipline in itself to get a good outcome.

    I've also seen brewers of big imperial stouts etc use them with a steady hand to get them to finish lower, but not too low. I've not got enough knowledge or experience ... like I said my efforts get a bit like rocket fuel, but can appreciate brewing and drinking something 10% that didn't have to start at 1.110 to finish at 1.033!
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  7. May 26, 2019 #7

    MyQul

    MyQul

    MyQul

    Chairman of the Bored Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    14,619
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Location:
    Royal Hamlet of Peckham. London.
    The malty styles like porter are probably the worst style if your diabetic. As others have said beers with very low FG would be best for you and as others have also mentioned use enzymes to crank the final gravity down to 1.000. One such style is a newish style called Brut IPA. Similar to an IPA but using enzymes to get the OG down to 1.000 making it quite dry and crisp (and very pale lager like)

    https://www.brewersjournal.info/what-is-brut-ipa-and-how-do-you-brew-one/
     
    ARTYCHOKE, An Ankoù and Drunkula like this.
  8. May 26, 2019 #8

    Clint

    Clint

    Clint

    Hammered.....

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6,275
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Location:
    North Wales
    Could you brew a proven recipe you like at say 10litres,4%,then just double the fv volume?
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  9. May 26, 2019 #9

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    534
    The brut ipa method is being used to make a new era of low calorie beers like Dogfish Head's Slightly Malty IPA.
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  10. May 26, 2019 #10

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    Brittany, France
    That's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I've get everything required so I think a half-batch experiment is called for.
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  11. May 27, 2019 #11

    ARTYCHOKE

    ARTYCHOKE

    ARTYCHOKE

    New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks Guys.

    I don't pretend to understand all the technicalities as yet but will work on that. Thankfully, I am neither a big drinker nor even a regular drinker anyway. However, I do thoroughly enjoy a 'wholesome flavoured' pint.

    Many years ago, when living & working in the East & South East UK, I loved Norwich Castle Bitter. It seemed fickle though to how it was kept & served. Of course, it vanished off the scene as many others did. Firkin Breweries Dogbolter too though for a while, I was able to buy & make their kits. Superb results too. I have since moved yet again and obtained some all grain recipes I'm keen to try once my "micro-micro brewery" is up & running.

    Cheers
     
    An Ankoù likes this.
  12. May 27, 2019 #12

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Drunkula

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    534
    Jesus, I've got about 15 Dogbolter shirts. We used to do the Dogbolter challenge all the time. I think it was 5 pints in an hour originally but then went to 6 and eventually 7 - I think the 7 was the pub putting it up just for us. Somebody I knew did the 6 pints in 16 minutes and everyone expected me to beat it - nah, never been competative.

    Dogbolter was a right thick old pint.
     
    ARTYCHOKE and An Ankoù like this.
  13. May 27, 2019 #13

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    An Ankoù

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    Brittany, France
    I used to love Dogbolter, and Ringwood Old Thumper before they changed the recipe in the eighties.
     
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.
  14. Jun 6, 2019 #14

    MyQul

    MyQul

    MyQul

    Chairman of the Bored Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    14,619
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Location:
    Royal Hamlet of Peckham. London.
    ARTYCHOKE likes this.

Share This Page