Dried elderberry port

[johncrobinson]

Yes it does have nutrient ( its meant for sugar washes (distilled))

I dont see any harm in an experiment though,Its only going to cost a bit sugar and a few dried elderberrys.

There is another way:> That is make a sugar wash then filter with activated carbon to remove all the off tastes
these products make, Then the add the elderberrys at the very end.
Its not my idea its how folk made high alcohol liqure kits a few years back.The legal way

I got liquid activated carbon from my homebrew shop in Inverness a few years back.You just stir it in let it settle and rack off.

BTW. Most of these kits you add all the dextrose in one go,Rather than feeding.

Also the less strength you make it ie lower abv the fewer problems with off flavours you will have.

 

[johncrobinson]

My interest years ago was scientific curiosity.Its in my nature with everything not just winemaking
I went into the subject in great depth,Trying to understand then break the normal limits
However I too prefer to drink modest alcohol wine.

Where i think high alcohol has a legitamate place in homebrew is in the production of port and sherrys and other fortified wines.
A downloadable PDF on a thread might be the best way,I will have to ask chippy how he wants it done.

 

[kelper]

The yeast's seller is CBF Drinkit AB and it was imported by Ares Sp. J. W-wa. See photo.

I found the ingredients http://www.cbfdrinkit.se/produkt/coobra-48-extreme-2/

 

[kelper]

@JCR my best reds are better than commercial wines but that's just my view. They are 14 to 15%. The port is just for fun. I will go ahead when my dextrose arrives. I might start with less than the full amount of 'sugar'. I like the idea of a thread on high alcohol wines/beers and a PDF download sounds good. It would be a shame if your thread gets diluted with too much comment. If you do it as a survey you can nix replies! ;-) but still attach a pdf to the first and only post.

 

[kelper]

I don't like the idea of fermenting sugar and then adding fruit - it reeks of alcopops. But I will try it if my recipe is a disaster. I've ordered the charcoal.

Is it worth inverting sucrose if using table sugar? The Coobra yeast suggest as much.

 

[johncrobinson]

Yes it is kelper. The yeast have to split ordinary sugar before it can use it,This costs the yeast reserves so by doing it for them
it gives them a leg up.
These 20% plus turbos wont get to max alcohol just using ordinary sugar straight from the packet.

You are also correct about the "alcopops" comment it will taste very different to a fermented wine.

My real concern ( And I have done this ) is the high level of nutrient required will leave an unpleasant aftertaste as not all will be used during the fermentation.
As well as the salty taste from the DAP the B vitamins are also strong tasting.
These turbos are packed to the rafters with nutrient.
Since they are premixed there is no control over nutrient levels.

If you use a lot of elderberry and possibly other fruit as well it might mask the taste so overall its an experiment worth doing
As I cant exactly predict the outcome.
Also the residual nutrient might not taste nice but will not be toxic or anything like that.

One other thing is temp control,You must have stable temperatures,Left to go up and down with the room is liable to stick the fermentation at this time of year in our part of the land.
I see you have this covered.
This by the way applies to ALL super high alcohol fermentations not just turbos.

 

[kelper]

Thanks JCR. I will use a waterbath to heat the demijohn. From my current brew I have learnt that the wine will be one or two degrees warmer than the water while fermentation is active and it will be cooler than the waterbath later on. So I will put the Inkbird temp probe in the demijohn this time rather than in the water. I'll leave plenty of headroom. I won't use an airlock as it might get blocked with Krausen. As you said, it's worth a try and I can afford the loss of some dextrose and berries.

If it tastes 'orrible, can I use the liquid charcoal? After fining?

 

[kelper]

BTW. Most of these kits you add all the dextrose in one go,Rather than feeding.

which kits are you referring to?

 

[johncrobinson]

Kits was the wrong word.I meant turbo yeast + nutrient packages.
You can get high alcohol kits such as Prohibition and Condessa in a wide range of flavours
I have made a few,Cherry Brandy (I added extra real cherries) was very nice.
Now that I am type 2 diabetic i avoid these things.
In either case for simplicity they usually instruct all the brewing sugar be added in one go

Treatment with activated carbon at the end will remove nearly all the colour and flavour and leave you with a wash,So i suppose you can.

 

[kelper]

My elderberry port(with blackberries) has got to 1.011 and still produces the odd bubble in the airlock. It's about 17.7% ABV by SG. I started on 12th March so it's only been two weeks. My Tilt says it's fluctuating between 1.011 and 1.010 now, so I hope it keeps dropping.

 

[kelper]

Will do a bit of google and get back.

Did you find if Cobra Turbo includes any nutrients? Cheers.

 

[johncrobinson]

As i recall yes they are yeast+nutrient packs.

Nice you have got to nearly 18%. You need that sort of abv to make fortified wine clones.

 

[kelper]

It seems to have finished at 1.010. Its been there for two days. It tastes rich and almost chocolatey! Good legs and full-bodied. I'll rack it off tomorrow and stabilise it.

 

[ChrisT]

After a gap of 20(ish) years I've returned to homebrew and recently I started;

500g Dried Elderberry
1 (and a half) bag frozen forest fruits
1 L red grape juice
1 L blueberry juice
500g sugar (dextrose)
GV4 yeast
1 teaspoon citric acid
1 teaspoon pectolase
1 teaspoon nutrient
No added water.

Left to ferment on the fruit for 5 days, strained into demijohn and was bubbling away merrily. After 7 days from start when the bubbling was down to one overy 5-10 seconds I added 400g sugar disolved in water. After 14 days from start when the bubbling slowed again I added 300g of sugar disolved in water.

Fermentation is slowing down again now (20 days), how often should I be feeding this and how much sugar should I be adding?

I'm monitoring the temperature using BrewBubbles with an attached temperature probe in a thermowell, then manually turning on a heater and I've so far keep the temperature between 19C and 24C.

This homebrew stuff is kinda fun, especially if you can add some toys, gadgets and gimmicks!


Chris

 

[kelper]

Did you note the sugar content of the grape and blueberry juices? How strong do you want it to be? I used a turbo yeast. I used 1.7kg of dextrose and 1kg of frozen blackberries along with 500g of dried elderberries. It finished at 1.010 so about 18% ABV. I don't recall how much sugar was in the blackberries.

 

[ChrisT]

Did you note the sugar content of the grape and blueberry juices? How strong do you want it to be? I used a turbo yeast. I used 1.7kg of dextrose and 1kg of frozen blackberries along with 500g of dried elderberries. It finished at 1.010 so about 18% ABV. I don't recall how much sugar was in the blackberries.

@kelper No I didn't take a reading at the begining, I'm just going to keep going with the sugar as far as I can.

I'm getting a bit of lees building up at the bottom of the demijohn should I rack off to give me more head room to keep adding sugar?


Chris

 

[kelper]

You did not answer my question, so I don't know what you are aiming for! Well, you've added 1200g of sugars plus about 600 in the fruit juice so you might get 18% like mine. But it depends how alcohol-tolerant your yeast is. If you add too much sugar it will end up very sweet. I'd suggest to measure the SG every two days and see when it bottoms out. If it gets to 1.000 or less then add more sugar. JCR can give you better advice so wait for his pearls.

 

[kelper]

Please read the whole thread - there's good info there from other members.

 

[ChrisT]

You did not answer my question, so I don't know what you are aiming for! Well, you've added 1200g of sugars plus about 600 in the fruit juice so you might get 18% like mine. But it depends how alcohol-tolerant your yeast is. If you add too much sugar it will end up very sweet. I'd suggest to measure the SG every two days and see when it bottoms out. If it gets to 1.000 or less then add more sugar. JCR can give you better advice so wait for his pearls.

@kelper This wasn't a particularly scientific experiment. This fermentation was a bit spur of the moment and I didn't prepare for it particularly well! I'm trying to get it as strong as I reasonably can.

When the last lot of sugar has "been used up" I'll see what it's like for taste and sugar content.

This is more of a familiarisation exercise back to homebrew, perhaps I should have tried something simpler? Since I started this I've also made what we used to call OAP wine, Orange Apple and Pineapple, thats already clearing....

Chris

 

[kelper]

Well, I'm chuffed with my port and hope yours turns out well. 18% is nice, you are unlikely to ever get to 21%. Mine was started on 12th March and racked off on 5th April at 1.009.