Extra bitterness in beer

Discussion in 'General Beer Brewing Discussion' started by pottsworth, Aug 24, 2019.

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  1. Aug 24, 2019 #1

    pottsworth

    pottsworth

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    I've now had a few batches of beer that have come out with an unexpected bitterness.

    I had wondered if I was using too much bittering hop, by latest attempt was the Mad Fermentationish NEIPA, which had no hops atall before 15 minutes, and should only have come in at ~35 IBUs, but yet again I seem to have an overly bitter beer.

    I'm using an immersion chiller, in a mibrewery (aka hopcat, ace, klarstein etc), so generally get under 80 degrees pretty quickly. I'm then fermenting in a fast ferment, and kegging. The NEIPA has also taken 2 days to carb up even at 50PSI.

    Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? Any suggestions for things to tweak in the future?
     
  2. Aug 25, 2019 #2

    uDicko

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    Can you post your recipe please? Also does the bitterness fade after a couple of weeks?
     
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  3. Aug 25, 2019 #3

    dan125

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    Was there a big flameout/whirlpool addition? & If so what temp/time did you steep them for?
    But if its only been a couple of days since kegging you might be getting hop burn which should settle down in a week or two.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  4. Aug 25, 2019 #4

    terrym

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    Sounds like a sensible idea to me under the circumstances athumb..
     
  5. Aug 25, 2019 #5

    foxbat

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    Does the perceived bitterness fade over time, like after a month or so? 'Green' ie. young beer tends to taste like all its flavours haven't melded together yet. Then there's carbonic bite from the CO2 that tastes acidic and can be mistaken for bitterness.
     
  6. Aug 25, 2019 #6

    Brew_DD2

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    If it's not the amount of hops used, I'd be curious to see your water chemistry. High ratio of Sulphate:Chloride can be responsible for an overly bitter finish.
     
  7. Aug 25, 2019 #7

    jceg316

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    It would be good to see the recipe, and as mentioned above water chemistry would have an effect. I brew in London with very hard water, not great for IPAs, before I knew about water chemistry my undrinkably bitter. Now I use CRS/AMS acid and epsom salts to condition water for IPAs.
     
  8. Aug 25, 2019 #8

    pottsworth

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    First beer I got it in was a stone IPA clone

    6.50 kg Maris Otter
    0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L

    30.0 g Target [9.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 25.6 IBUs -
    11.0 g Magnum [14.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 14.8 IBUs -
    10.0 g Summit [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.6 IBUs -
    30.0 g Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 19.7 IBUs -
    30.0 g Centennial [9.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 8 1.1 IBUs -

    It was a bit sour when I kegged it, which went once it was carbed, but went to a strong bitterness. At the time I figured it was just the 75 IBUs. The bitterness was there through the ~4 weeks I had it on tap.

    Next beer was the mad femrentationist NEIPA(ish). It's come out with the cloudy-ness of a NEIPA, but the hop profile is very muted, and it's very biter.

    I added Gypsum, lactic, epsom, and salt to match the beersmith hoppy pale ale profile.

    0.25 kg Rice Hulls
    4.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter
    1.00 kg Carafoam
    1.00 kg Oats, Flaked

    5.0 g Summit [15.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 15 3.8 IBUs -
    30.0 g Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 min without cooling
    30.0 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 min without cooling

    Dry hop:
    105.0 g Citra - 2 days into fermentation
    70.0 g Amarillo - 2 days into fermentation
    70.0 g Mosaic - 2 days into fermentation

    Keg hop:
    55.0 g Citra
    40.0 g Mosaic
    30.0 g Amarillo
     
  9. Aug 25, 2019 #9

    uDicko

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    How long have you had the NEIPA packaged for before tasting and noticing muted hop profile?
     
  10. Aug 25, 2019 #10

    uDicko

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    Oh and water profile target would be good to see
     
  11. Aug 26, 2019 #11

    dan125

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    The Stone IPA clone sounds like it was just a very bitter beer, with 75 IBUs.

    The NEIPA is a bit trickier though.
    You'll certainly be extracting a fair few IBUs from the 60g whirlpool addition without chilling the wort down a bit before they go in.
    NEIPAs are usually made with a chloride heavy water profile to promote the a softer/smoother mouthfeel/bitterness & it sounds like you've gone for a sulphate heavy water profile which will enhanace the perception of crispness/bitterness.
    NEIPAs are also notoriously suspectible to oxidation which could be muting the hops. How are you getting it into the keg? Has the colour of the beer darkened since packaging?
     
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  12. Aug 26, 2019 #12

    pottsworth

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    NEIPA has been in the keg since Friday.

    I filled the keg from the fermenter sampling tap into the beer out post.
    I filled the keg with a couple of litres of statsan and pushed it out with CO2 before filling, then purged the headspace ~6 times after filling.
    I haven’t noticed any change in colour, but had to be completely sure without a back-back.

    This was the water profile I used, which is definitely sulphate heavy.
     

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  13. Aug 26, 2019 #13

    uDicko

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    I think it will need another week to get a more prominent hop profile. I've had it before where I was sorely disappointed for 1 to 2 weeks and it got significantly better after this point.

    I will await others to comment on the water profile as this is still something I'm toying with for this style.
     
  14. Aug 26, 2019 #14

    Brew_DD2

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    That sulphate:chloride balance is way out of kilter, even for a hoppy beer. I would be very surprised if that wasn't the cause of the bitterness. A good target for a bitter IPA would be 2.5:1 sulphate:chloride ratio max for me. For a NEIPA I usually go 1:2 sulphate:chloride.
     
  15. Aug 26, 2019 #15

    pottsworth

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    Thanks.

    I’ll be honest, I somewhat blindly followed the BeerSmith profile.

    Do you have a rough target profile that you’d aim for with a NEIPA?
     
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  16. Aug 26, 2019 #16

    Brew_DD2

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    We've all be there. For a NEIPA, similar to above but you want your chloride roughly 1.5-2 times higher than your sulphate level. Overall numbers aren't hugely important as long as you don't go really high into the hundreds. For example 250ppm of chloride to 125-150ppm sulphate should work out well.
     
  17. Aug 26, 2019 #17

    Hoddy

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    I don’t understand why BS keeps on coming up with adding so much Epsom salts. I have tasted beers by other people where they have had a profile like that and it does give it a minerally/bitter taste. Not good at all and I cannot find any reason why it does it.

    I would suggest dropping the Epsom all together and actually manually adding the salts in beersmith yourself. For a good NEIPA don’t be afraid to be up in the 150 ppm for Calc chloride and 50 ppm for sulphite. And I too add 1-2 grams of salt as well across the diff beers I make. But that’s where adapting and learning about your own water, the beer style and your recipes you will dial it in eventually.
     

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