Fermentation Seemingly Ongoing 23 days Later

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Show Me a Stein

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Hi all,

I'm pretty sure the answer is to 'just wait', but I was wondering about the peculiar path this fermentation has taken.

I brewed a wheat beer more than 3 weeks ago. The post about the recipe can be found here - the only differences from that are that I used Tettnang for hops, and added small amounts of orange/tangerine zest and a small amount of crushed coriander seeds near the end of the boil. Original gravity at this point was measured to be 1.061. This is adjusted this from the actual reading as plain water, both tap and bottled, gave a reading of 1.004 on my hydrometer.

Fermentation kicked off about 13 hours after, where I noticed krausen forming, and then rapidly so. The krausen seeped out and assaulted my airlock in the hours after, leading me to fit a narrow hose as a blow off, but it never entered the blow-off, and so I returned an airlock a few hours later. It bubbled furiously for the next few days

  • On day 3, 28 May, I took a gravity reading using a wine thief, which gave a result of 1.020. I drank the sample, and it was on the yeasty side but not offensive to be honest.
  • Some time after day 3, bubbling seemed to stop. I tried to stop watching it, like a kettle as I had been the first few days, so I'm not sure exactly when, but it was obvious that after day 2 that airlock activity was no longer very vigorous. i would guess day 4 was the last time I saw any airlock activity.
  • On day 15, 9th June, I took a gravity reading. The result was 1.018 - only a minor change from day 3, leading me to believe that fermentation was likely to be complete. And great news - the sample was absolutely delicious and smooth. Clarity was good -- I could see through the wine thief pretty clearly. Even my girlfriend, not the biggest fan of the taste of beer, really enjoyed it. Though flat, I already preferred to it to Hoegaarden, Edinger and Blue Moon, which I didn't think was a realistic goal. My plan at this point was to bottle in a few days, after taking a final reading to confirmation fermentation was complete, but life got in the way as it does. However, from what I read, there was likely no harm in allowing it to sit for 3 weeks.
  • On day 20, 14th June, I notice bubbling, maybe every 3 minutes, while checking some equipment to make sure I'm ready to bottle in the next few days. Odd. Bit of googling suggests it's not always wise to read into airlock readings, that gas can release even if fermentation has stopped, and only the hydrometer can confirm if fermentation has completed
  • Day 22, I enter the closet to get my jacket, and notice airlock activity.
  • Day 23, today, I am planning to bottle. I enter to take a reading, and while preparing, the airlock bubbles. I take a gravity reading and.... it has dropped considerably. It is now 1.008 (adjusted)! The taste is still good, though perhaps more alcoholic (ABV has changed from 5.5% to 6.83%). It seems cloudier now, but I may have disturbed the trub taking this reading which I may not have perviously? Additionally, there was yeast in last sample at the bottom of my glass from the previous sample, but nothing was left over this time.
It seems to me that fermentation is in progress again, and that it's not safe to bottle. However, I have concerns about the path of this fermentation. Seems like it was stuck? Plotting it on a graph, it doesn't seem like what you'd expect:

G9h2yeO.png
(the dates written above are correct, and the dates in the graph are just evenly spread out and don't relate to the readings were taken).

I theorized that temperature fluctuations had played a part, and that perhaps fermentation stopped at one point, only to restart. Looking at past weather where I am though, it doesn't really seem like that's obvious conclusion. The highest temperatures were recorded between the first 2 readings which only changed in a minor way. I should also note that today is the highest I've noticed it's been in the closet where I have the fermentation bucket - 24C on the thermometer. On the bucket, I have one of the LCD thermometer strips, which read 23 (this has usually been in agreement with the room thermometers, though less variable, which makes sense). It has generally been 20C-23C on thermometer, and 21-24, on the bucket thermometer (usually at 22 or 23). The yeast (Mangrove Jack M21) says the acceptable range is 18C-25C.

3CJvi3k.png


What I think is a more likely contender is that on the 2nd reading on the 9th, I (not very violently) tilted the fermentation bucket to get more beer into the wine thief, which could have kicked the yeast back into action. I could have also disturbed the bottom with the wine thief itself for the same effect. Some drips from the thief also landed back in the beer. No visible splashing or sloshing though. I also had issues to attend to which meant the beer was exposed to the air for maybe ten minutes (which made me fear I had oxygenated the beer which had previously been airtight except for maybe a minute for the first reading). I took the measurement today in almost exactly the same fashion, for what it's worth.

Last theory I have is that I somehow infected it on the 2nd reading, but apparently that should be obvious from the taste, and it tastes good.

What are the thoughts on this situation? BeerSmith suggested an OG of 1.052, and a Final Gravity of 1.014 - and it has exceeded both. Estimated ABV was 4.5% to 5.5%, and I'm sitting at 6.8% (I guess I am getting my wish for a stronger drink!). I understand that I probably lost a bit of water to evaporation - there is 17.75l in the fermentation vessel as opposed to the 19l I boiled.

How should I approach this to make sure I'm not going to decorate the closet with beer because fermentation is not complete? Just keep taking readings every other day? Wait till the airlock stops bubbling?

Sorry for the tome - I know everyone's beer is more interesting to themselves - but thanks in advance for any advice!
 
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I think you have either left it to long on the trub or your fermentation temperature was to high, nothing worse than getting an alcohol taste in a beer.
 
I think you have either left it to long on the trub or your fermentation temperature was to high, nothing worse than getting an alcohol taste in a beer.
It still tastes pretty awesome - just like a high alcohol beer though (which, being Belgian, I'm fine with), but it's possible that's placebo, as I already knew the ABV before I drank it. I don't think it's fusel alcohols or anything going by their description, but I guess it could be developing into that.

Could leaving it on the trub 3 weeks instead of 2 be a reason for the hydrometer reading falling so rapidly? Not more likely just a stuck fermentation that I didn't realise?
 
The FG sounds OK. Could it be that the fermentation vessel gets colder at night and as it warms during the day, the bubbles you see are from the gas expanding? Go ahead and bottle it, not forgetting some carbonation drops OR priming sugar.
 
The FG sounds OK. Could it be that the fermentation vessel gets colder at night and as it warms during the day, the bubbles you see are from the gas expanding? Go ahead and bottle it, not forgetting some carbonation drops OR priming sugar.
That's what I was thinking, and so I was surprised when the gravity had dropped. I'm pretty eager to get it bottled, but given that it's still occasionally bubbling, I am worried I might end up with some bottle bombs - though I don't imagine it can drop much further. (hopefully). I have priming sugar ready to go. I think if it's at the same gravity level 24 hours later I will just bottle.
 
It still tastes pretty awesome - just like a high alcohol beer though (which, being Belgian, I'm fine with), but it's possible that's placebo, as I already knew the ABV before I drank it. I don't think it's fusel alcohols or anything going by their description, but I guess it could be developing into that.

Could leaving it on the trub 3 weeks instead of 2 be a reason for the hydrometer reading falling so rapidly? Not more likely just a stuck fermentation that I didn't realise?
It happened to me once, the bad sign is the dropping of the FG and it can happen extending the time on the trub or temperature to high, but if you say it tasted good then bottle it. Fusel alcohol doesn't taste good.
 
I have found MJ yeasts have a long fermentation tail, I've used 3 of them now inc M21 and they all took way longer the the usual 2 weeks. I haven't got my records to hand but I think one was 21 days and the other 28.

I've just put on another Wit with M21 so it'll be interesting to see if it repeats with a long ferment.
 
It happened to me once, the bad sign is the dropping of the FG and it can happen extending the time on the trub or temperature to high, but if you say it tasted good then bottle it. Fusel alcohol doesn't taste good.

How long in your case had you left it on the trub? I think (well, read, really) high temperatures are usually to blame for the fusel alcohols but I've never went out of range (and don't believe I taste any anyway) so I'm hoping it's not that - temperature's the one thing I can't control! Extended time on the trub a possibility but I've heard of people saying it only kicks at about 6 weeks + or something.

I have found MJ yeasts have a long fermentation tail, I've used 3 of them now inc M21 and they all took way longer the the usual 2 weeks. I haven't got my records to hand but I think one was 21 days and the other 28.

I've just put on another Wit with M21 so it'll be interesting to see if it repeats with a long ferment.
This is interesting to read! Hopefully it's just one of the yeasts' behaviours (although the graph still makes me wonder if I accidentally fixed a stuck fermentation). Hopefully if anyone googles this thread about a slow Mangrove Jack fermentation it allays some fears. :laugh8:

How did your beers turn out tasting? Presumably quite good if you're brewing another?
 
I have found MJ yeasts have a long fermentation tail, I've used 3 of them now inc M21 and they all took way longer the the usual 2 weeks. I haven't got my records to hand but I think one was 21 days and the other 28.

I've just put on another Wit with M21 so it'll be interesting to see if it repeats with a long ferment.

Interestingly, I found this deep in Google: one of the comments is a brewer with the same experience as me - Mangrove Jacks - M21 Belgian Wit

Have used this yeast 4 times and the first two times finshed high. When the third one looked to do the same, I just forgot about it and left it in primary. About two weeks after the fermentation had appeared to stop, the airlock started bubbling again and continued for another 3 or 4 days. Final result 1.010 whereas the first two finished around 1.022.

Fourth batch fermenting now, and I'm just going to let it do it's thing again to see if it does this weird two stage ferment :)

Love the taste of it which is why I'm sticking with it.

Cheers
Blair
 
Day 24 (actually 24.5) and fermentation continues unabated. Airlock bubbled as I entered, and I measured 1.006 on the hydrometer! It's dropped just as much between day 23 and 24 as it did between day 3 and day 15. I guess it was stuck and I didn't realise.

Unfortunately, the beer now tastes more like it did when I took a sample on day 3. Yeasty, not smooth, and a bit bitter. The amazing taste, smoothness, and clarity on day 15 is gone. It genuinely is going through fermentation again. Hoping I can recapture the previous taste and smoothness and am now pretty anxious about it! The increase in ABV is not likely to help the taste. It's now roughly 7.25% when at that point it was 5.5%.

If that is the case that it's on the equivalent of day 4 since fermentation restarted, I'm not sure that even if it finishes fermenting, it's suitable to bottle? No one would bottle on 4 day - is this purely because fermentation would still be ongoing, or also because the yeast should be allowed to condition the beer before it gets bottled? I feel if it's the former I should be able to bottle as soon as the hydrometer gives consistent readings. Otherwise I'll need to wait about 10 days to bottle (bringing me over a month in primary bucket), and then another 2 weeks in the bottle.
 
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If you bottle too soon you will get bottle bombs! What does 0.06 mean???? Do you mean 1.006? 1.060?
 
If you bottle too soon you will get bottle bombs! What does 0.06 mean???? Do you mean 1.006? 1.060?

Sorry, I messed that up! It read 1.006 (down from 1.008 36 hours previous). I'm not going to bottle till I get three consistent readings 24 hours apart -- so hopefully it is still 1.006 today, but the fact there was a bit of bubbling before I measured yesterday makes me think it won't be. I'm very wary of bottle bombs since I don't think I'll be forgiven if that happens. :laugh8:
 
I was daft enough to bottle my first brew in square bottles. They exploded, seconds apart, at about 3am. I was almost tempted to get out of bed but the curses from my wife as she mopped up put me right off the idea.
:laugh8: You live to tell the tale.

Took a measurement just there (day 25): 1.005 now, I think - could still be 1.006. It's hard to be super accurate with a hydrometer with such small changes. Airlock still occasionally bubbling. So holding off on bottling till I get a few more readings

Tastes yeasty, with a bit of bitterness. The alcohol isn't as obvious. It's crazy to me how much the taste changes each day.

It's also a bit more orange coloured than the last two days (which were more yellow), and a bit hazy. When it tasted super nice it was pale orange/yellow and very clear, no fizz at all, and so was easy to read the hydrometer.
 
Your beer currently has an attenuation of 90+% (based on 1.061 and 1.005). Are you sure its not infected? To the best of my knowledge most if not all beer yeasts would have given up by now (although others may know better on that)
Not sure to be honest. It looks fine, and outside of tasting a bit 'green', I don't think it tastes bad. I feel that the only real options are a stalled/slow fermentation that got fixed, or an infection. I noticed the attenuation is high compared to what was on the yeast packet (Mangrove Jack's M21) which said 75% iirc. I'd hope it's not an infection, and that it's just a case of it 'over-attenuating' somehow, as comments I found online have noted this particular yeasts's slow fermentation timescale and tendency for over-attenuating, making me feel like I'm not the only one in this boat. I should note that the yeast packet said it will ferment up to 8% ABV, and I'm now at 7.3%, so I don't think it should be 'impossible' on that basis if conditions are right.

This is my first ever brew, and I've been fairly paranoid about infections and so on -- I've not had time to get complacent! I've worn a facemask and hairnet when messing with the bucket . The fermentation vessel has been airtight going by the airlock and the bulge on the lid. I haven't disturbed it much until now -- only 2 times until a couple of days ago -- as I'm eager to bottle and so am looking for a stable reading. I've used ChemSan (StarSan imitator) to sanitize the washed wine thief every time. The lid wasn't on for nearly ten minutes (closed room) on day 15 as I had issues, but it's probably been exposed to the air cumulatively for 15 minutes inclusive of that. I'm not sure how bad that is, and my main fear was oxygenating the beer, but I imagine it would also be unlucky if a wild yeast had somehow taken afoot because of that. It was also only the 2nd time the vessel had even been opened.

At this point, I'm wondering if there'll be so little sugar unused that it won't carbonate after I'm sure the gravity has stopped dropping and I get it into bottles!
 
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Zero krausen and one point off target; I'd be kegging/bottling up. Truth be told, I would have kegged it quite some time ago. Of course, kegs aren't going to explode like glass bottles but I have never had that happen to me when I used to bottle. And I would have bottled most of my brews before TFG was reached.
 
Zero krausen and one point off target; I'd be kegging/bottling up. Truth be told, I would have kegged it quite some time ago. Of course, kegs aren't going to explode like glass bottles but I have never had that happen to me when I used to bottle. And I would have bottled most of my brews before TFG was reached.
Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean that I'm one point off target? My estimated final gravity was (according to BeerSmith) 1.014, and I can't remember where, but the range was 1.009 to 1.019 (or similar).

That said, I was intending to bottle ages ago - just the fact that the gravity had fallen put me off. I feel at this point it can hardly go any further!
 

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