Fermenting under pressure in a no-chill cube

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
I have been reading about fermenting under pressure in a Corny keg so that the CO2 that is normally expelled from the FV naturally carbonates the beer.
It got me to thinking about the no-chill cube that is sitting on the shelf in my brew shed - it's rated to 200 kilopascals (about 29 psi) and should be very suitable for use as a pressure fermenting vessel. I thought of fitting two Corny posts to the top of the keg, similar to this:

Add gas and liquid dip tubes and I've got a jerrykeg!

 

[foxy]

Hi!
I have been reading about fermenting under pressure in a Corny keg so that the CO2 that is normally expelled from the FV naturally carbonates the beer.
It got me to thinking about the no-chill cube that is sitting on the shelf in my brew shed - it's rated to 200 kilopascals (about 29 psi) and should be very suitable for use as a pressure fermenting vessel. I thought of fitting two Corny posts to the top of the keg, similar to this:
View attachment 12304
Add gas and liquid dip tubes and I've got a jerrykeg!

Might be a good idea to leave a bit more head space, or you could build the pressure from the start, that will keep the krausen down but the yeast will not be to happy

 

[Bigcol49]

but the yeast will not be to happy

Hi!
Thanks, Foxy.
I've not read of any problems with this - Fermentasaurus owners please feel free to chip in.

 

[dan125]

Hi!
Thanks, Foxy.
I've not read of any problems with this - Fermentasaurus owners please feel free to chip in.

Only on my 2nd brew in the FS but I've had the latest brew under pressure the whole time and it seems to have fermented out fine - early days though.
The latest beersmith podcast is about fermenting under pressure and Chris White mentions that pressure can inhibit yeast growth at the begining of fermentation. I might try ramping up the pressure after fermenation starts n ernest next time:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2018/01/1...s-white-john-blichmann-beersmith-podcast-163/

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
@dan125 Thanks for the link
[EDIT] I've listened to the podcast; it's interesting how the perceived "better" beer was fermented at 15psi.

 

[foxy]

It is interesting to read what Williamswarn owners say about their beers, they are fermented at high pressure and they reckon they taste better (though it was designed for extract beers) I have never tasted one from a Williamswarn but I would think they wouldn't be getting any accolades in a comp.

 

[foxy]

I made mine using barb connections, did consider using the gas and liquid posts but wasn't sure how it would turn out, so took the cheaper option and I have the tap at the bottom which allows me to transfer to secondary between the 2 taps. First attempt was a bit of a cock up didn't expect fermentation to take off so fast, as I hadn't fitted the spunding valve it caught me on the hop.

Transferred to secondary after 5 days but I reckon it was well finished, 7 days after pitching yeast I was drinking did cold crash it for one day but didn't really need it beer was as bright as could be.

So fully carbonated, and drinking one week after pitching yeast, a young taste but not to bad, reduction of esters and slightly more bitter, I had read about the bitterness issue before and that commercials using the pressure technique for lagers adjusted their hop quantity, also Blichman mentioned the same thing in the podcast.
Made a manifold to enable me to ferment more than one beer at a time using the one spunding valve and pressure gauge, what seems like a good idea at the time isn't always the case, for it to work I will have to have similar beers and pitching the yeast at the same time and hoping they all kick off at the same time.
Manifold with spunding (PRV) and gauge.
Primary fermenter with two barbs one to flush the secondary with CO2 the other barb connecting to the manifold.

 

[dan125]

Hi!
@dan125 Thanks for the link
[EDIT] I've listened to the podcast; it's interesting how the perceived "better" beer was fermented at 15psi.

Yeah I was quite pleased to hear that as its more or less what I've done with my latest brew.
All the info I can find on pressure fermenting seems to be related to lagers though - there's not much about ales.

 

[Bigcol49]

there's not much about ales

Hi!
Probably because fermenting under pressure is reducing the esters that we are hoping to find in ales.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi @foxy
Thanks for the photos.
I can't source cubes in the UK with fitted taps, so I will need to fit Corny posts to transfer under pressure and serve the beer.
The posts cost £15 for a pair (from China!), and I'll need dip tubes, so that's going to be another £15, plus a couple of quid for stainless steel washers. I'll make seals out of silicone cake "tins" (I've used them before - they work well). Add on the cost of the cube, about £8, and I should have a pressure fermenting setup for about £40. This is obviously cheaper than a Corny keg, even a second-hand one. On top of that, of course, is the cost of a spunding valve - the expense never ends.
I'm just waiting for that slow boat from China and I'll see whether it works!

 

[dan125]

Hi!
Probably because fermenting under pressure is reducing the esters that we are hoping to find in ales.

Reducing the esters is by and large a bonus for me as I mainly brew hoppy American styles where I want a clean, neutral yeast character.

 

[foxy]

Dan if you are after the hop forward ales you can go up to a higher pressure, I used to like the American heavy hopped ales but after a couple of years and a tongue that felt like it was crinkling up went back to the Pommie style beers still do the occasional American beer this is a Summer Rye from Gordon Strongs book, no bittering hops just 75 gram of flameout hops (Motueka) turned out very refreshing for our hot humid weather.

 

[foxy]

Hi Col, had a look on eBay UK for something similar to what we have here with the taps there were some on there but far to expensive I think they were 25 GBP, I pay $9.50 or there abouts AUD. with the tap recess for a 25 litre which gives me 28 litres including the head space so enough room for a 23 litre batch.
This is the one I pressure tested to 40 psi which I mentioned before from Wilco or Wilcko.

Mind you I could not budge the lid after the test so it would have been close to its limit.
Also there are those King Keg barrels you have, are they dear? Either one they are easy to put the fittings on to, easier than the cubes.

 

[Bigcol49]

Also there are those King Keg barrels you have, are they dear? Either one they are easy to put the fittings on to, easier than the cubes.

Hi!
Tried King Kegs - didn't like them, plus they are about £50 each.
Our Wilko has a similar FV, but it's taller than a cube - I can get 2 cubes in my brewfridge, but only one Wilko FV.
Interestingly, Wilko have recently changed the design of their narrow-necked FVs.
The old type (bottom photo) has no tap.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi @foxy
How do you transfer from one cube to another?
Is it simply attach hose to the tap of cube 1 and the hose barb of cube 2 and open the tap?

 

[foxy]

Hi @foxy
How do you transfer from one cube to another?
Is it simply attach hose to the tap of cube 1 and the hose barb of cube 2 and open the tap?

Yes, attach a hose to each tap and transfer equalize the pressure through the barbs at the top so the pressure that is in the secondary is taking up the space being emptied by the primary.
Another idea is to use one of these and lay the cubes on their sides.

 

[foxy]

On further consideration not a good idea to use the cap tap, when I pressurised the cube it is the bottom which pops out, so may be better to drill a hole and fit a tap. Before doing that though may be worthwhile ringing a few chemical manufacturers and inquiring about the cubes with taps.

 

[Bart Fleming]

Hi!
I have been reading about fermenting under pressure in a Corny keg so that the CO2 that is normally expelled from the FV naturally carbonates the beer.
It got me to thinking about the no-chill cube that is sitting on the shelf in my brew shed - it's rated to 200 kilopascals (about 29 psi) and should be very suitable for use as a pressure fermenting vessel. I thought of fitting two Corny posts to the top of the keg, similar to this:
View attachment 12304
Add gas and liquid dip tubes and I've got a jerrykeg!

Down here in NZ, I've been experimenting in a similar vein. Inspired by another local brewer's You Tube video (Tubedinoz) and having owned a Beersphere, I've created a pressure brewing system that involves 2 daisy chained cubes- the second for secondary transfer.
I've used brass compressor connectors as gas and beer posts and created a plug in pressure release gauge.
All this can be achieved very cheaply.
With the daisy chained vessels - oxygen free transfers can be achieved.
Lagers can be transferred to modfied garden sprayers and connected to a beer tower and soda stream cylinder too.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi @Bart Fleming
Great set up. Yes, I've watched Tubedinoz too.
I can't source the plastic water carriers (Jerry can) that have taps fitted near the base here in the UK, although I'm still looking.
I have thought about fitting a tap using a long-handled socket wrench or similar but that's on the back burner for now.
The cost of the Jerry, corny posts and dip tube mean that the project is getting as expensive as buying a cheap pressure barrel, but that's nowhere near as much fun!
I thought about making a liquid dip tube out of 8mm copper tubing, but I'm not sure whether having the beer in constant contact with copper would be deleterious to the beer (and me)!

 

[Bart Fleming]

Hi @Bigcol49,
That's a shame about the Jerry cans. Here they're pretty cheap $20 for a 20 litre. Cornie posts are a little pricey here too. That being said, they are stainless. Hence the reason I adapted brass air compressor parts - again cheap.
As you can gather... I'm cheap.
Here, the only pressure barrels available are Rotokegs. They're pretty pricey - and in fact cornie kegs are around the same.price.
I'm not sure whether air compressor attachments are cheaper there in the UK but if they are, you could fit the socket (left in pic) on the outside, a female plug (second left)on the inside with PVC tubing fitted as a dip tube.
You might find them in a 5 piece pack at a bargain price.