first BIAB...help needed for 2nd!

[tom_p87]

Hi all,

Recently got into the homebrewing during lockdown and am really enjoying it. Did a kit, which tasted pretty good but then thought i would have go at AG and came across the BIAB method. I used this for a 10L SMaSH (marris otter & simcoe + some cascade thrown in after about 5 days). Brew day seemed to go pretty well (around 6 hours all in with clean up etc). Tried a small sample prior to bottling (2 weeks in the FV) and it tasted great! Just waiting the 3 weeks or so now for it to condition...

I used Biabacus to estimate the water and it seemed pretty good, I ended up with slightly too little wort so my SG was a little high...no major dramas though. I could have diluted a little, but I was limited to my 2x 5L demijohns for fermenting in. I now want to upscale this recipe and do a 23L batch, but I only have a 19L stockpot. I'm wondering if its ok to do 17ish LTR mash & boil then dilute to 23L in the FV. I get that this might reduce the quality slightly, but do many people have experience doing this? Any alternative options without getting a 2nd pot or 1 big pot (my kitchen hob will struggle!)?

Also interested to know if anyone lets their wort cool overnight in the FV or putting the stock pot in the bath or something rather than using a wort chiller/constantly changing the water in the sink approach kind of thing? I think this would be simpler, but just concerned about infection/quality reduction in some way

Finally, I really want to try adding some different hops...wondering if there is any good reading people know of that explains what X grams of Y hops would roughly do for the beer flavour. Don't want to ruin the SMaSH recipe that already tasted good, but also want to try other recipes too

Thanks for any help on this

Cheers

Tom

 

[Brianbrewed]

I started off my all grain brewing in a peco boiler and a mash bag. I think if you want to scale up to 23litre to need to this at least.
I bought this around 9 years ago and it's still going strong

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/p...ional-boiler-32lt-no-hop-strainer-p-4422.html

 

[Cwrw666]

I recently did a 40 Ltr brown ale brew in a 30L boiler. I basically did my usual brew but doubled the quantities (grain and hops) then split the wort between 2 FVs and diluted both to 20 Ltrs each.
The beer is fine but I have to say it's come out nothing like a brown ale despite having used this recipe for years. It's almost black and if you told me it was a porter I'd believe you. Also quite bitter.

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Tom

I now want to upscale this recipe and do a 23L batch, but I only have a 19L stockpot. I'm wondering if its ok to do 17ish LTR mash & boil then dilute to 23L in the FV. I get that this might reduce the quality slightly, but do many people have experience doing this? Any alternative options without getting a 2nd pot or 1 big pot (my kitchen hob will struggle!)?

... you could do that, but mashing and boiling to create a more concentrated wort, then diluting, can suffer from reduced efficiency ... to try to overcome the additional losses, some Aussie BIAB brewers developed the "maxi-BIAB" technique (see there (link)) ... basically you mash the grains for a brew larger than your pot will hold (you have a 19lts pot and want to brew 23 lts, which is a common combination in maxi-BIAB circles, as it happens), ideally you'd mash in enough water for the water and grains to almost fill the pot (keeping your stockpot as full as you can get it/dare to fill it is a theme in maxi-BIAB), then at the end of the mash you pull the grain bag and drop it into some more water (heated in your kettle) in another pot (an empty FV or bucket, say), then while your wort is coming up to the boil you "dunk sparge" the grain bag in the water in the spare pot, then pull the bag again and use the sparged wort to fill up your stockpot to as full as you feel brave enough to bring to a boil ... once it gets to a boil you add your hops to the recipe, and as the wort evaporates off during the boil you can keep adding more sparged wort to top up the boil, but add no wort after 30mins left in the boil (so all wort gets at least 30 mins of boiling) ... then, after the boil and you've cooled/transferred your wort, that's when you'd dilute to either the volume or gravity that you want to make.

In theory, brewing more concentrated worts can increase kettle caramelisation (which will darken worts, which may be what happened in Cwrw666's case) and can reduce hop extraction (which may lead to a less bitter beer. which is exactly the opposite of what Cwrw666 found, I don't know what happened there ) and you may need to adjust recipes (reducing amount of darker grain and increasing quantities of hops) to correct for that ... but it's probably best to try a brew without adapting recipes first, then adjusting to "fine tune" the process based on experience

Cheers, PhilB

 

[tom_p87]

thanks all, really useful info! The topping up during the boil idea sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[tom_p87]

Hi @PhilBrew, in your experience what would be the best way to estimate the amount of grain needed for a target SG? As topping up the pot during boil is not really possible in the calculator i'm using (biabacus). Cheers - Tom

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Tom

in your experience what would be the best way to estimate the amount of grain needed for a target SG?

... in my experience, I'd say don't run before you can walk ... find a recipe for 23 litrs of the sort of beer you'd like to make (there's loads of them, all over the internet) and brew that as per recipe, except for the amounts of water to use ...

As topping up the pot during boil is not really possible in the calculator i'm using (biabacus).

... hmmm, you don't want to get anywhere near any of the forum politics that there were around the BIABrewer forum and the developments of BIABacus, you just need to know that BIABacus was developed by people who fundamentally disagreed with maxi-BIABing .... so ... if you want to use BIABacus, you need to "con" it by telling it you have a much bigger pot than you actually have (35 lts, say) then scale your recipe to make 23lts and use that recipe, unchanged except for the amounts of water to add at the different stages ...

Basically, at the start you'll put 18 lts in your pot (say) but then take out around 3/4 of a ltr per kg of grain that you're going to add in to mash in it (which is about how much water a kilo of grain displaces) ... then you'll do your (tea-bag in a cup style) "dunk-sparging" with around 1 ltr per kg of grain, to fill up the pot before starting the boil, and see how much you've got left for topping up during the boil (add another recently boiled (not boiling) kettle of water into the sparge bucket if it looks like you'll need to top up with more than you have) ... all of these amounts may seem "inexact" compared to what BIABacus would tell you, but you'll soon see that all you're doing is getting as much water ready, at each stage, as you'll need to keep the amount in your boil pot as full as possible ... you can leave all the adjustment for actual volumes and efficiencies to worry about at the dilution stage

Cheers, PhilB

 

[tom_p87]

thanks for the detailed response, yep it was just the water/grain ratio calc that I was a bit unsure about...with my first 10L BIAB (it was a 10L recipe) it was easy enough to use BIABacus but now i'm exceeding the kettle limit I'm not confident about the amount of grain I need. My original recipe was 1.6kg to produce 10L of 3.7% IPA...guess i could just scale that to roughly 1.6 * 23/10 to give 3.7kg? I am all good with the "inexactness" above, just want to make sure I don't end up with too weak a ratio of grain/water...as you say if the grain/water ratio is too high i can just dilute :) Appreciate the help!

 

[PhilBrew]

... with my first 10L BIAB (it was a 10L recipe) it was easy enough to use BIABacus but now i'm exceeding the kettle limit I'm not confident about the amount of grain I need. My original recipe was 1.6kg to produce 10L of 3.7% IPA...guess i could just scale that to roughly 1.6 * 23/10 to give 3.7kg?

... yes, you could do the same again, only bigger (if you scale the grain don't forget to scale the hops, as well) .. or you could browse through the "tried and tested" recipes people have used on the forum here (see there (link)) ... or you could search the internet ... you could even just tell us what sort of beer you'd like to make and someone would probably pop up with a recipe

Basically, you might want to limit yourself to anything with less than around a 5.5-6kg total grainbill ... you'd struggle in that 19 lts pot with anything much bigger than that ... but other than that, the world really is your oyster ... you are the head brewer, in your home brewery, and you get to decide what gets brewed

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Surfingobo]

I brew 8L in a 15L pot. I could push it to 10L but my hob struggles with the boil already. I would say just brew 15ish litre and brew more often if I were you. I was desperate to jump straight in to buying a 35L kettle but to be honest I’m enjoying having the variety of different beers!

I cool in the sink. Typically whack it in and take it from boiling to 35C in about 1.5 hours. Every now and then I fill the sink up over the overflow which seems to effectively reduce the temp of the water. I then leave at room temp overnight (or now in my fancy new fridge) all with the lid on. I end up with clear wort going into the FV this way. I found just cooling in the sink I had very murky beer.

I set a 60min hop stand at 80C in Brewfather to account for the extra bittering. This seems to work well for me but is definitely an approximation. Less bitter styles you may need to remove first wort and 60min hops completely.

 

[Surfingobo]

And when the sink is needed for something else I just stick the kettle on a heatproof mat and leave over night. Typically still a little warm in the morning this way though.

 

[ChrisT685]

I recently did my first 23L BIAB using a Peco boiler and left the wort to chill overnight in it before siphoning into my bucket FV and pitching the following morning. It's been in the bottles 3 weeks and had a 'tester' over the weekend and it came out absolutely fine.

I was uber careful and made sure I sealed the boiler as soon as possible..... From memory I think at about 90 degrees and didn't touch until it was at 22 degrees.

I have a chiller but didn't have the right connections to use on the day plus I was put off my wasting water so I went for it and it worked out fine for me !

Hope that helps?

 

[tom_p87]

thanks all for the responses! @PhilBrew I guess I wanted to use my "tried and tested" 10L recipe upscaled but I will see if I can find something similar that's already a 23L recipe :). Good point about the ~6kg grain limit, should be fine for me though as i'm typically more of a session ale drinker. Appreciate all the help!