First lager brew

[Alastair70]

Planning to do a post Christmas lager now the brew fridge is up and running. Any comments from seasoned brewers will be greatly appreciated. The plan so far...

23L batch; 17L mash, 15L sparge

Fermentables (Wayermann)
Bohemian Pilsner 4.5kg
Bohemian Wheat 0.5kg

Mash
Single step 65C

Boil 90 minutes
50g Saaz 60min
20g Saaz 15min
Protoflac tab 15min

Fermentation
2 sachets Fermentis Saflager W-34/70
Temp 12C initially
Diacetyl rest 18C when gravity drops below 1.020

Lagering
4 weeks in secondary with brew fridge at lowest temp

Priming/Condition
Another sachet of Saflager W-34/70 in the priming sugar solution, then condition at 12C for 3-4 weeks.

My biggest question is, what are the views on a multi-step mash. The grainfather will do this, but doesn't seem to be the same as pulling off a load of wert and boiling it up for a bit. I can just imagine sugars caramelising and adding lots of toasty goodness to the final brew in a traditional decoction mash that step mashing in the GF won't achieve.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd stick with single step infusion, and personally have never seen the benefit of a 90 minute boil. Maybe try some Vienna if you want a little more character from your malt bill

Recipe looks great though. Love Saaz.

 

[Oneflewover]

What sort of lager are you aiming for, and what is the wheat in there for? I'd also be inclined to include a large splodge of Vienna or a smaller amount of Munich in place of the wheat. I'm not a seasoned brewer though by any stretch!

 

[Alastair70]

Can’t remember where the 90 minute boil came from. The couple of other times I did one it just made me balls up the hop additions. I’ll revise to 60 for this brew.
Wheat was there to add a bit of head retention, and the last recipe I looked at was John Palmers Bock, which had a load of wheat in.
Aiming for something crisp, dry, refreshing and reminiscent of cold beers on past hot continental holidays. In my case mostly Belgian or German Pils.

Vienna or Munich both good suggestions too, I’m thinking that’s Lager brew 2 and 3 taken care of.

 

[MrL73]

I did a SMaSH lager, using just pilsner and Saaz and it was bloody gorgeous. Didn't bother with a 90 minute boil, and 'lagered' it in the bottle after it had carbonated. I was drinking it within 4 weeks of bottling (too impatient) but it really got better after about 6 weeks. Really mellowed out was really easy drinking. Gonna be doing another in the new year as soon as I get a new keg to lager it in. I'm done with bottles.

 

[Ghillie]

Would personally drop the what to 5% or lower if you even need it at all.

90 minute boil isn't necessary either IMO. It was old hat when malts weren't as modified as they are now and DMS was harder/took longer to drive out the wort. 60 will be fine, but if you're under OG then hold her going of-course.

65C will see you good, I've experimented a lot with mash temps in lager brews and "personally" do 66C. I've tried step mashing, etc and haven't seen any real benefit or difference in taste.

I keg exclusively now, but wouldn't really be wanting to add more yeast at bottling. The lagering step is beautiful because almost everything falls out of suspension; to add more yeast would be detrimental to the previous 28 days efforts IMO. I've bottle conditioned beers that have been at -1C for a week and they carbed up just fine. Never gone as long as 4 weeks mind you, but have read others having no problems. The other take on the matter is using champagne yeast, as it's deemed
neutral in flavour so is virtually unnoticeable.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Alastair70]

Thanks all.
Final plan; single step mash, 5% wheat in the grain bill, batch prime and bottle at end of fermentation and lager in bottle.
Haven’t got set up with kegs yet, that’s next on the wish list.

Order in with Get 'er Brewed, Looking forward to a post-Christmas brew day already!

 

[matt76]

I've done a few lagers and never bothered with a step or decoction mash. In fact the Vienna lager and Munich Helles i did recently were both 30min mash & 30min boil, both taste great.

That said, I'd like to try a decoction mash but that's more just as a rite of passage or an experiment - my own experience is that is not essential.

 

[decanter2020]

I'm not sure if it was something that i was doing but i never got the water tool in beersmith the work properly and then pH estimates were nowhere near what it was saying, it's seriously ****. Use something like bru'n water which is always pretty bang on, or switch to brewfather. Which is what i've done, it's always in the ball park and is more convenient than using 2 different programs.

 

[Leon103]

Is there any need to add more yeast? I never add more yeast.
I usually later for Up to 8 weeks and bottle with no problems.

 

[Alastair70]

Is there any need to add more yeast? I never add more yeast.
I usually later for Up to 8 weeks and bottle with no problems.

Thats one of the things I'll change next time, this one went off like a rocket and hit FG earlier than expected. I'm doing the Diacetyl rest now and hoping the yeast isn't too knackered to cope.

 

[Leon103]

Thats one of the things I'll change next time, this one went off like a rocket and hit FG earlier than expected. I'm doing the Diacetyl rest now and hoping the yeast isn't too knackered to cope.

I use double for fermenting but not priming

 

[MrRook]

Is there any need to add more yeast? I never add more yeast.
I usually later for Up to 8 weeks and bottle with no problems.

I've lagered at just above freezing for three months and it carbed fine without adding more yeast.

 

[RichardM]

I use double for fermenting but not priming

I've used a 1 litre starter from liquid yeast for my lagers (as I do for my ales) and it has worked fine for fermenting and for carbonating in the bottle after a four week lager at 2 centrigrade

 

[matt76]

For those of you who say adding extra yeast isn't necessary (I'm looking in your direction @Leon103 , @MrRook and @RichardM ).....

Can I ask firstly how are you packaging your beer (keg, bottles, etc) and how are you conditioning them (time & temp).....

Reason I ask is my own experience is varied..... I batch prime and bottle all my beers and generally have no carbonation issues (certainly not with ales). I leave them to carb and condition at room temp for 4 weeks.....

1. The Czech pilsner I brewed ~1 year ago (WY2278) carbed up nicely after ~1 month.
2. Similarly my Baltic Porter (WY2124) carbed up well, though that was left to condition for >12 weeks.
3. More recently my Vienna Lager and Munich Helles (both WY2206) carbed up OK - both were perfectly drinkable and fizzy, but somewhat less fizzy than I'd have expected for the amount of priming sugar added.

With the Helles I did an experiment and actually found sticking the bottles in the airing cupboard for a couple more weeks was most successful - not totally conclusive as other bottles where I added yeast I had to open and release any existing pressure. So from my own experience I might be inclined in the future to try adding yeast at bottling. However, I also wonder if the particular yeast strain has anything to do with it.
So as is often the case in homebrewing maybe the answer is "it depends"

 

[Leon103]

For those of you who say adding extra yeast isn't necessary (I'm looking in your direction @Leon103 , @MrRook and @RichardM ).....

Can I ask firstly how are you packaging your beer (keg, bottles, etc) and how are you conditioning them (time & temp).....

Reason I ask is my own experience is varied..... I batch prime and bottle all my beers and generally have no carbonation issues (certainly not with ales). I leave them to carb and condition at room temp for 4 weeks.....

1. The Czech pilsner I brewed ~1 year ago (WY2278) carbed up nicely after ~1 month.
2. Similarly my Baltic Porter (WY2124) carbed up well, though that was left to condition for >12 weeks.
3. More recently my Vienna Lager and Munich Helles (both WY2206) carbed up OK - both were perfectly drinkable and fizzy, but somewhat less fizzy than I'd have expected for the amount of priming sugar added.

With the Helles I did an experiment and actually found sticking the bottles in the airing cupboard for a couple more weeks was most successful - not totally conclusive as other bottles where I added yeast I had to open and release any existing pressure. So from my own experience I might be inclined in the future to try adding yeast at bottling. However, I also wonder if the particular yeast strain has anything to do with it.
So as is often the case in homebrewing maybe the answer is "it depends"

After 3 weeks of fermenting I will cold condition in a fv. Temp range on inkbird is set to 0.5-2.5c I have left some lager up to 8 weeks but typically 5 weeks. I then bottle, carb for 2 weeks at 19c. I then start drinking. If it's summer I will put a load in the fridge at about 6c but if winter I just leave it to the natural garage temps

 

[RichardM]

Can I ask firstly how are you packaging your beer (keg, bottles, etc) and how are you conditioning them (time & temp).....

I bottle and condition at about 20 centigrade for a couple of weeks and then move to somewhere cooler

 

[MrRook]

The longest I ever went was three months in a secondary at 36f (about 3c). I bottled without adding yeast and had no problem carbing. I used Wyeast 2124.

 

[matt76]

Thanks guys, interesting. I wonder if it's something peculiar about 2206, or maybe just one of those things.

I'm planning another Czech pilsner soon with 2278 again - I don't immediately feel like I need to rush to add extra yeast for bottling, but something to watch out for once it's finally ready to drink.

 

[Alastair70]

Thanks everyone. As always the variation in experience and practice is really interesting.
I'm going to ditch the extra yeast, diacetyl rest is complete and lagering commenced today. I'll aim for minimum of 4 weeks, brew fridge sits between 1 and 1.5 degrees according to the ink bird.