Flabby beers?

Discussion in 'Grain, Hops, Yeast & Water' started by Pennine, Jan 26, 2020.

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  1. Jan 26, 2020 #1

    Pennine

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    I have a couple of batches that seem to be a bit flabby, almost like I over did the calcium chloride and they don't have the acidic twang I like. If I add a pinch of citric acid to the pint it seems to fix it. Is this something I can fix by adding less CaCl and more acid at mash? I usually use RO water and add gypsum, CaCl, a bit of Epsom and usually 2-4 ml of 75% phosphoric acid.

    The beers in question are a Scottish ale and American wheat ale.
     
  2. Jan 26, 2020 #2

    Pennine

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    took a pH reading of one of the beers at 4.4 if I adjust to 4.1-4.2 it's much more to my liking. So any tips to get there?
     
  3. Jan 26, 2020 #3

    An Ankoù

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    2-4 ml of phosphoric 75% phosphoric acid is a massive amount. I'd use that amount of 10% if I used phosphoric acid to adjust my water. How much CaCl2 are you putting in what volume of liquor? Have you tried using your water without any adjustment (except for dechlorination) just to see how the beer turns out?
     
  4. Jan 26, 2020 #4

    strange-steve

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    A post fermentation pH of 4.4 might be a tad higher than it should be (for certain flavour characteristics at least), do you check mash and/or boil pH levels? What sort of water profile do you typically use?
     
  5. Jan 26, 2020 #5

    Brew_DD2

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    That amount of Phosphoric/Lactic seems fine to me. I regularly use the same for pale beers. Definitely interested to see water profile and sulphate to chloride ratio.
     
  6. Jan 27, 2020 #6

    Northern_Brewer

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    Murphys suggest a degassed pH of 3.7-4.1 for cask conditioned ale. Keg tends to come out a bit higher as you have more carbonic acid from the CO2.
     
  7. Jan 27, 2020 #7

    Hoddy

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    In my opinion if your approaching 200 ppm of calc Chlor then your heading towards that paracetamol/flabby flavour. No matter how much gypsum you add.

    look at lowering the calc and tweak the gypsum to get the ratio to your taste.
     
  8. Jan 27, 2020 #8

    Pennine

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    At the time I did not have a pH meter so no readings. I was shooting for an amber dry profile.

    This one in a 10 liter batch I added 2g of gypsum, 1.5g CaCl, 1.4g MgSO4, 1.0g Baking Soda. Looks like I did not add any phosphoric for this one as the est mash pH was already low as it had some chocolate in it, color was 30 ebc

    Adjusted profile was in ppm 72 Ca, 11 Mg, 18 Na, 122 Sulfate, 56 Cl, 58 Bicarb
     
  9. Jan 27, 2020 #9

    Pennine

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    I have been using RO water and building up. My tap has very hard water somewhere in the 450 range. I have used straight from the tap with lactic acid and was generally pleased with it but wanted a little more flexibility with the RO.

    I have not used the RO without adjustment yet. One of these days I'll make a pils or light lager though.
     
  10. Jan 29, 2020 #10

    Pennine

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    Any tips where to start? Is pH in the final beer mostly yeast related or is it more affected by water and or malts?

    I get a similar taste when I use high percentages of Munich. So I am not entirely sure on which variable to pick apart. My other thought was sulfate to chloride ratio. I have been tempted to split a batch into 4 separate fermentations with various mineral additions after the boil to sample this.
     
  11. Jan 29, 2020 #11

    Brew_DD2

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    Your water profile looks absolutely fine. 2:1 sulfate:chloride should give you a really crisp beer. I wouldn't be too bothered about the finished beer's pH to be honest.

    When did you last change your RO filters? Something definitely doesn't seem quite right.
     
  12. Jan 30, 2020 #12

    Pennine

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    It's about 2 months old hopefully the filters are still ok?
     
  13. Jan 30, 2020 #13

    Brew_DD2

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    Yeah, it won't be that. Could you post the recipes of the beers that have had this taste?
     
  14. Jan 30, 2020 #14

    Pennine

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  15. Jan 30, 2020 #15

    Pennine

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  16. Jan 30, 2020 #16

    Brew_DD2

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    Certainly nothing looks awry with the recipes. Mash and fermentation temps accurate and hit? Any potential issues with sanitation? Any changes to your racking technique?
     
  17. Jan 30, 2020 #17

    Pennine

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    Yeah I brew with a braumeister most of the times so temps should be spot on. And no other changes to the process for these batches just chilled quickly and racked and pitched. However both were with liquid yeast and typically I use dry? I don't temp control fermentation but pretty consistently have 18-20c ferments.
     
  18. Jan 30, 2020 #18

    Drunkula

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    You could brew a middle of the road batch and then change the levels as you're drinking it. If you don't have a super-sensitive scale you can make up solutions of gypsum and calcium chloride and dose with a syringe.
     
  19. Jan 31, 2020 #19

    Brew_DD2

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    Any yeast starters?
     
  20. Jan 31, 2020 #20

    Pennine

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    No I used WHC pitches that are supposed to be 200 billion cells figured it was adequate enough for 10l of wort.
     
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