Flanders Red Ale

Discussion in 'General Recipe Discussion' started by Daz1200, Jun 27, 2017.

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  1. Jun 27, 2017 #1

    Daz1200

    Daz1200

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    I am about to embark on the long journey into brewing a sour for the first time.

    Recipe is for Flanders Red Ale taken from Greg Hughes "Home Brew Beer" book.

    Grain bill is:

    Vienna Malt 3.2kg
    Pale Malt 1.6Kg
    Wheat Malt 250g
    special B 300g
    Caramunich III 300g

    Yeast is: Wyeast 3763 Roselare Belgian Blend

    My first question, I cant get hold of the Special B malt, I was going to substitute for Heritage Crystal malt. Is this an acceptable substitute or is there something else more suitable?

    I was also looking for some guidance on how long to ferment in primary fermentation? should I add oak chips? to primary or should I rack after primary into another vessel and add oak chips.

    I have searched the internet for some guidance on method but just ended up more confused, seems everybody has a different method.

    Sorry for all the questions but just want to try and get this right from the start.

    Daz
     
  2. Jun 27, 2017 #2

    Pawlo7671

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    Daz1200 likes this.
  3. Jun 27, 2017 #3

    Daz1200

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    Thanks Pawlo7671, Order placed.

    :thumb:
     
  4. Jun 27, 2017 #4

    Zephyr259

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    I've used that malt from that store, seems good but I only had 25g in a 7L batch of barleywine.

    Please keep us updated with how things go. I'm seriously considering brewing that same beer soon.
     
  5. Jun 27, 2017 #5

    JFB

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    I'm 5 months in to this brew but I used white labs 655. The primary fermentation went crazy, I would make sure you have a blow off tube set up if the yeasts are similar.
    I think I did three weeks primary and then racked into a glass carboy with medium French wood chips that had been bought to the boil in water.
    Its still bubbling away now in my kitchen pantry.
     
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  6. Jun 27, 2017 #6

    Daz1200

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    I was all set to get this on the go last week using the heritage caramel malt as a substitute for the special B, but I read somewhere that I can't ferment in a plastic bucket because the plastic is porous and allows too much oxygen through. Also once I have used equipment to brew a sour I can't use it to brew "normal" brews because it's next to impossible to get rid of the bacteria.

    I went ahead and ordered a 5 gallon glass carboy just for my sour brews. Just waiting on my special B now so probably get this started next week now.

    How long do the oak chips stay in secondary fermentation? I have some medium toasted french oak chips which I was going to add.
     
  7. Jun 27, 2017 #7

    strange-steve

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    Special B is just a dark crystal malt, so you can sub with something around 120L or more.

    You can use a plastic FV, however it's possible you'll get a little more acetic acid production. In a Flanders red that isn't really a big problem, but with a lambic it can be. Though I have brewed 2 lambics in plastic without any acetic acid issues. Obviously glass is better if you can though.
     
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  8. Jun 27, 2017 #8

    Daz1200

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    Thanks Strange Steve,

    I am planning on primary fermentation in a plastic barrel and then into glass for secondary, using an old plastic fermenter which I can keep just for sours.

    That's my plan anyway.:-?

    Daz
     
  9. Jun 27, 2017 #9

    Zephyr259

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    That's what I was thinking too. Dedicated plastic FV then a glass carboy for secondary. Given the time these take to mature I'd want to fill a 23L carboy which means using an FV which can hold at least 25L. The only all glass option I see would be ferment in the 23L carboy then secondary in a 11.4L one or multiple 4.5L ones.

    I'm presuming that these pellicle-forming brews still get handled the same as other with the carboy/demijohn filled to the neck to minimize air exposure?
     
  10. Jun 27, 2017 #10

    Daz1200

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    I plan on fermenting in 25 l plastic fermenter and then secondary in a 23 l glass carboy. From what I have read the carboy should be filled to the neck to reduce the surface area exposed to the air, however I am very much learning about this process so open to the opinions of others...
     
  11. Jun 27, 2017 #11

    Zephyr259

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    Cool, so we have a similar plan for what that's worth. :-)

    Anyone got experience with these yeast/bacterial blends? Wyeast says not to propagate them but I'm guessing a starter is still a good idea and they are just advising against doing the overbuild and keeping for future batches?
     
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  12. Jun 27, 2017 #12

    JFB

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    Sure they say its best not to do a starter as it will unbalance the mix of bugs and yeast.
    I just poured a tube of WL 655 in to 23L and I've never seen such an aggressive primary fermentation.
     
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  13. Jun 27, 2017 #13

    JFB

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    Quick pick of mine at present:sick::lol:
    Hadn't herd about the need to fill up to the neck of the carboy? Its producing lots of co2 so guessing its fine.

    IMG_0316[1119].JPG
     
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  14. Jun 27, 2017 #14

    Daz1200

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    Looks quite lively, is that the first time you have attempted a sour? Do you plan on getting on another and blending them?
     
  15. Jun 28, 2017 #15

    Zephyr259

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    Cool, I know Geterbrewed restocked their Roselare blend recently as I had to wait for the yeasts i wanted to come back into stock and it came back too. Having said that if it's manufacture date is the same as the others it's still gonna be 2 - 3 months old by the time I get to brewing.

    But then I guess they say it's all good within the best before date.

    Extra headspace may just result in more acetic acid? But if it's still fermenting the O2 will be long gone. Gotta love how disgusting sours look while conditioning. My wife's very accommodating of my brewing thus far but sours or anything sulphury might be pushing it. Will have to keep it in a dark cupboard (would be the plan anyway).
     
  16. Jun 28, 2017 #16

    markcc

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    The Roeselare blend doesn't seem to actually get that sour. I've got a flemish ale I made with it which has been in secondary for 18 months and it isn't hugely acidic. Things I've read about Roeselare suggest that it gets more sour the more beers you put it through. So might be worth keeping some and then reusing.
     
  17. Jun 28, 2017 #17

    JFB

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    I've made a kettle soured Berliner weise using grain for lacto that came out ok ish:-?
    Its my first long sour though. Ive managed to find space for one more carboy in the spare room so I can have two going. hopefully one ready every 6 months.
    I just tried the first of a brett beer last night that was made with brett lambicus which is proper funky and a little tart.
    I also want to have a go with some of the yeast bay yeats as they do some sour blends that you can turn around in four months so they say.
     
  18. Jan 13, 2019 #18

    BeerCat

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    How are everyone Flanders developing? I have read if you want more acidity you can add some lacto first. Has anyone heard of this? I just bought some roselare and sourpitch but would like to keep the latter for something else. There is some interesting info here. I have a load of dj's sitting around doing nothing so i plan to rack to them after a month.
     
  19. Jan 13, 2019 #19

    Zephyr259

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    I don't have a strict Flander red yet but I have a 11.5 L carboy of Old Ale with Brett C which is a has had 5 months with the bugs now so I should probably have a taste.

    Another 11.5 L of Bock that got a whole mess of cultured dregs and the Yeast Bay Amalgamation brett blend to make something like an Oude Bruin, it's had 3 months now. Amusingly the clean half of that batch seems to have a pedio infection as it went ropy in the bottle after 2 months...

    Just racked my golden sour to a 23 L carboy after a week's primary with Roselare and a bit of Opshaug Kveik, went from 1.048 to 1.019 in the week, that kveik seems to given oddly low attenuation which is good for the bugs in this case. Idea will be to bottle some straight, fruit some more then top up the carboy as a homebrew solera as that seems safer than ageing it for years to blend for geueze.

    Not added oak to any yet, I have bag of bourbon barrel chips but keep forgetting about then when racking. Might add some when I taste the beers.

    Don't think I can safely store another carboy without my wife taking exception to it so my next batch will have to wait until the old ale is bottled.

    Oh, I had @JFB's Flanders Red a couple of months ago and it was awesome!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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