Forum Christmas Brew

[user 18729]

Ah,I seen your 23l scaled recipe,thanks Hopsteep...I really must pay attention!!
I've got choc malt,but it's the darker stuff. Oats...porridge variety?
Think I'll go with the MJ Empire yeast..
Invert...can I use dark candy sugar?
No...they're not the same!!
Reading about invert sugar...it's a mixture of glucose and fructose..both are easy to buy in small amounts but less so for the invert...can you just mix fructose and glucose or is there a ratio?

Porridge oats/rolled oats do the same thing dark Candi would work well I think Clint. Not the same but would be a great substitute

 

[Cowman]

Are both those only part invert? Does it matter? Would the treacle be detectable taste wise as "treacle"?Does the invert taste change a lot as the colour darkens?

They are both part invert but put in early in the boil and with the acidic mash water in theory should invert more of it. I don't know about the taste part but should be similar. My numbers are for 19l btw. Got the idea from jim s forum:
https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42824

 

[Mrhandsome]

Right entered into brewers friend scaled down for a 10l batch keeping the percentages around the same. Subbed some of the light chocolate malt for some dark that I need to use up, medium crystal, and WLP013 London Ale yeast. Never used lactose before so that'll be fun!

Just got to wait until payday to do an order....

 

[Clint]

I might try to make some but will probably either get some candi sugar on my next order or get some syrup.
Quite looking forward to this. I might try to get it done before end of September.

 

[DavidHatton]

Well looks like the Chocolate stout came out as the winner!

This beer tastes the best between 4 and 6 weeks conditioned as the chocolate faded a little over time, so I recommend brewing this one in November.

If everyone is happy I’d like to propose a brew week between the 2nd and 8th November (subject to everyone’s commitments).

Edit- I’ll post detailed recipes for all-grain and extract versions, but they aren’t strict. Feel free to play with my recipe especially if you have a yeast strain or malt you would prefer to use

Might knock up a test batch first!

 

[user 18729]

Might knock up a test batch first!

That's approved providing that you post brew day photos and list in humorous detail any mishaps

 

[gavp1979]

In regards to the came sugar required for the invert I can find 2 types in Sainsbury's (UK)

• Demerara cane sugar: Sainsbury's online Grocery Shopping and Fresh Food Delivery
• Golden caster cane sugar: Sainsbury's online Grocery Shopping and Fresh Food Delivery

Does it matter which one is used?

 

[Oneflewover]

In regards to the came sugar required for the invert I can find 2 types in Sainsbury's (UK)

• Demerara cane sugar: Sainsbury's online Grocery Shopping and Fresh Food Delivery
• Golden caster cane sugar: Sainsbury's online Grocery Shopping and Fresh Food Delivery

Does it matter which one is used?

Just use the cheapest granulated sugar you can find. Some sources suggest beet makes better candi / invert syrup.

 

[Clint]

Just looking in Malt Miller...along with Candi crystal they sell Candi sugar syrup...is this invert as invert isn't crystalline?
Invert is 50/50 fructose/glucose...H and B sell 500g fructose syrup for £1.99, glucose can be bought from Asda,Dr Oetker baking stuff...140g for £1.99.
I've done some more digging...some sources say invert is 50/50 glucose/fructose.
I found a web page called Ragus product finder which lists Brewers invert syrup..but states it's dextrose, glucose,fructose...the liquid Belgian Candi syrup from Malt Miller lists these same ingredients...
To add to the confusion.. glucose is dextrose! Too many tose...

 

[An Ankoù]

To make things worse, Ronald Pattinson, if I understand him correctly,
says that home brewers who say you don't need to use invert sugar because an enzyme in the yeast will invert table sugar are missing the point because the whole point of the range of coloured invert sugars is that they contain unfermentable impurities and flavourings from incompletely refined cane sugar. Elsewhere he suggests we make our own by boiling a syrup of table sugar for an appropriate length of time.
Surely that's not the same thing. I could boil sugar down to the colour of treacle, I suppose, but it won't be treacle.
In the UK, there's a whole range of partially refined sugars: soft brown, soft dark brown, muscovado, which are used for baking. I wonder if any of these can be used.

 

[user 18729]

To make things worse, Ronald Pattinson, if I understand him correctly,
says that home brewers who say you don't need to use invert sugar because an enzyme in the yeast will invert table sugar are missing the point because the whole point of the range of coloured invert sugars is that they contain unfermentable impurities and flavourings from incompletely refined cane sugar. Elsewhere he suggests we make our own by boiling a syrup of table sugar for an appropriate length of time.
Surely that's not the same thing. I could boil sugar down to the colour of treacle, I suppose, but it won't be treacle.
In the UK, there's a whole range of partially refined sugars: soft brown, soft dark brown, muscovado, which are used for baking. I wonder if any of these can be used.

It’s the citric acid that inverts it whilst being boiled to add colour. You’re right though the purpose is to add complex flavours through darkening and caramelising the syrup. Having made it ages ago, it may look like treacle but taste nothing like it. Far less sweet and more dark/roasty if that makes sense.
I think Clint’s idea of a Belgian Candi sugar would have a nice effect

 

[An Ankoù]

It’s the citric acid that inverts it whilst being boiled to add colour. You’re right though the purpose is to add complex flavours through darkening and caramelising the syrup. Having made it ages ago, it may look like treacle but taste nothing like it. Far less sweet and more dark/roasty if that makes sense.
I think Clint’s idea of a Belgian Candi sugar would have a nice effect

I've never tried making it so I think it's time I had a go.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I'm doing the original recipe with 319g of golden syrup and 11g black treacle to make invert no.3 at the start of the boil
also adding 17g of sweet orange peel so its a chocolate orange stout

I might copy you, i have some orange peel going spare!

 

[Clint]

Well...I emailed MM about the Candi syrup...NO! They said I'd be better off using brewing sugar!
You can get proper inverted off internet from baking sites but it's completely clear...I wonder if this could be simmered to darken it?

 

[samale]

T

To make things worse, Ronald Pattinson, if I understand him correctly,
says that home brewers who say you don't need to use invert sugar because an enzyme in the yeast will invert table sugar are missing the point because the whole point of the range of coloured invert sugars is that they contain unfermentable impurities and flavourings from incompletely refined cane sugar. Elsewhere he suggests we make our own by boiling a syrup of table sugar for an appropriate length of time.
Surely that's not the same thing. I could boil sugar down to the colour of treacle, I suppose, but it won't be treacle.
In the UK, there's a whole range of partially refined sugars: soft brown, soft dark brown, muscovado, which are used for baking. I wonder if any of these can be used.

Totally off topic but how would redx perform as a base malt for a stout. I have 19kg of it. I can't just keep brewing red IPA's. Or maybe I can

 

[An Ankoù]

T
Totally off topic but how would redx perform as a base malt for a stout. I have 19kg of it. I can't just keep brewing red IPA's. Or maybe I can

At the end of the day, it's a base malt, so I reckon you can make what you will of it. AND, it brews up a tad sour so I'm thinking a Guinness clone. I'm up for it if you are.

Yeah. Red IPA has it's place. but it's not exactly a session beer and it's costly in hoppage. I've got a fair few kilos left too, and I made a really nice bitter of it. Yes, a can feel a Guinness clone coming on.

 

[Clint]

About the cacao nibs...recipe asks for 150g,I've just placed my MM order and got a couple of 100g packets..could I bung the lot in save having 50g floating round my freezer til Doomsday...thinking on...if the stouts a winner I'll have a head start on the next batch.

 

[user 18729]

About the cacao nibs...recipe asks for 150g,I've just placed my MM order and got a couple of 100g packets..could I bung the lot in save having 50g floating round my freezer til Doomsday...thinking on...if the stouts a winner I'll have a head start on the next batch.

Absolutely! I might add some more this time. Their flavour is really subtle so I think you could add even more

 

[Horners]

Just on the cacao nibs, I did a choc milk stout a while ago which had terrible head retention. I swear I read something around it being to do with oils in nibs and so good idea is sticking in freezer after steeping in vodka to separate out the fats/ oils - might be nonsense but equally might be worth looking into

 

[Clint]

I'm guessing the fats would freeze?