Fritz's Dunkelweizen

[Fritzpoll85]

So after having polished off my standard weissbier (which I will be brewing again),I'm now planning a dunkelweizen, which I'll be brewing in a few days or so. I thought I'd just post up the plan here in case anyone has any thoughts while I tinker with it. Have used the Grainfather App for some of the planning, so hopefully the numbers are okay - the grain itself arrived today

Recipe is something I scribbled down from a website and compared to one in my weissbier book and then added to slightly

Mash Ingredients
3kg Weyermann Wheat Malt Light
1.5kg Crisp Munich Malt
250g Weyermann CaraMunich Type 2
75g Weyermann Carafa Special type 2
75g Weyermann Melanoidin Malt
250g Oat Husks

Yeast: Mangrove Jack's M20
Hops: 34g Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9% at 60min boil
Batch size: 19L

I've popped the melanoidin because my book insists on decoction mashing for a dunkel, even when it doesn't for a standard. I've chucked in the oat husks to tryand avoid a stuck mash - could probably go up a bit?

Still looking into what water profile to target, and a suitable set of mashing steps. Some suggestions of a longer boil at 90mins to help reduce DMS, but I'm not sure about that. In any case if I pop it all into the Grainfather app, then I get the following:

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.013
ABV: 5.9 <- seems a bit high?
IBU: 15
EBC: 25.5

Will fiddle and look into the mash steps and the water profile. If anyone has any thoughts on the above, please let me know.

 

[cushyno]

I really enjoyed the Dunkelweizen I did in February 2019. While it was the only one of its style I have brewed, it was very enjoyable.

My thoughts:

• You use more wheat than my recipe in proportion to Munich. I think that's the right way to go. My brew was heavily slanted towards malt character and might have benefited from being lighter and more of a Weizen.
• I used 0.3kg of special B. It didn't really follow through to the overall flavour. I think it became lost in the Munich and caramunich. I think you'll achieve better maltiness with the melanoidin malt.
• Levels of caramunich are similar to what I used. Seemed about right.
• Mittelfruh is better than the Tettnang I used. Tettnang is floral and I suspect it gets lost in the heavy malts.
• Water profile, I used 0.71 sulphate to chloride. This did accentuate the maltiness, no doubt.

What I ended up with was a very flavoursome Dunkelweizen that was all about the malt. I forgot to underpitch the Wiehenstephan yeast which would have given more character too.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Thanks for that @cushyno - that's really helpful. My only concern now is that the ABV might be a little high. I think the style tops out at 5.8%.

Of course, the theoretical ABV relies on me hitting a particular target OG, which didn't quite work last time...

 

[Hanglow]

Have you used crisp munich before? I've only bought british munich once before (can't remember which maltster) and it was more like a specialty malt than the base malt that the german stuff is. Will be interested to hear what it is like. If you want it stronger you can, it's your beer. I personally always like them a bit lower as I think they can get cloying when higher abv, so would keep the og down a bit.


My basic dunkelweisse recipe is:

og 1.051
fg 1.012
60% Wheat Malt
30-35% pils
5-10% caramunich 1, 2 or 3, depending on how dark I want it
20 IBU tinseth from one bittering addition @ 60mins

Water is pretty soft with about 50ppm Ca from CaCl. No sulphate needed.

Target mash pH of 5.8, so higher than most beers - helps the ferulic acid rest and cloudyness.

step mash is very useful,
45.5c for ferulic acid rest 30mins
64c 40mins
72c 30mins

I adjust the wort ph down to 5.1 after the boil with lactic acid, although proper hefeweizen yeasts can usually easily push the pH down enough on their own
Really like Munich Classic Ale as a dried yeast. ferment at 18c. Carb well to at least 3 volumes.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Have you used crisp munich before? I've only bought british munich once before (can't remember which maltster) and it was more like a specialty malt than the base malt that the german stuff is. Will be interested to hear what it is like. If you want it stronger you can, it's your beer. I personally always like them a bit lower as I think they can get cloying when higher abv, so would keep the og down a bit

Ah. I think i used a bit of it in the other weissbier recipe. Now you've said this, I'm wondering if I should have gone for some Weyermann Munich Type I, which MaltMiller now have, but I swear wasn't there when I ordered. Hmmm. Think I'll have to go with what I have, as I can't use the crisp for much else....hopefully won't be too bad

I am also going to try for a ferullic acid rest - I only yesterday read about the pH needing to be around 5.8. How do you measure the pH?

 

[Hanglow]

A pH meter.

Although i didnt bother measuring anything last time round, my low alkalinity water gives me mash ph of about 5.8 with that recipe i think.

I use this water calculator usually, it is the most accurate ive found. Although rather annoyingly it is in US measurements. Very handy if you dont have a pH meter but do know the composition of your water and recipe

http://homebrewingphysics.blogspot.com/2020/03/mph-water-calculator-v42.html?m=1

 

[Fritzpoll85]

@Hanglow thanks for that. I will take a look and make some recipe adjustments (possible just increasing the batch size a little to reduce the ABV?)

 

[Fritzpoll85]

OK, so revised recipe and a replacement fir the Crisp Munich Malt arriving today

Mash Ingredients:
3kg Weyermann Wheat Malt Light
1.5kg Weyermann Munich Malt Type 1
250g Weyermann CaraMunich Type 2
75g Weyermann Carafa Special type 2
75g Weyermann Melanoidin Malt
250g Oat Husks

Yeast: Mangrove Jack's M20
Hops: 34g Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9% at 60min boil
Batch size: 20l

Mash steps:
45 degrees for 30min
64 degrees for 60min
75 degrees for 10min

Not 100% sure about alkalinity on this beer. On Steve's scale, is this like a 'brown' beer, so 75ppm? Need to try and work that out between now and the morning!

 

[strange-steve]

I am going to recheck before calculating the treatments, but last brew was about 166ppm

I thought I'd answer your question here since it's more specific. I see that you're planning an acid rest, and as @Hanglow mentions this is supposed to be more effective at a higher pH level. With that in mind I'd be tempted to wait until starting the 64c rest to add the acid to the mash. Calculate the amount needed to reach about 75ppm alkalinity, so roughly 0.5ml/L of CRS.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

I thought I'd answer your question here since it's more specific. I see that you're planning an acid rest, and as @Hanglow mentions this is supposed to be more effective at a higher pH level. With that in mind I'd be tempted to wait until starting the 64c rest to add the acid to the mash. Calculate the amount needed to reach about 75ppm alkalinity, so roughly 0.5ml/L of CRS.

Yeah, that sounds great - thanks for the reply. My thinking is to drop the CRS down the overflow pipe so it has a chance to mix into the wort a bit before being recirculated

I assume the sparge water should still be 20ppm so I can pretreat that

Thanks fir the help - this forum is the most helpful I've ever visited

 

[strange-steve]

Yeah, that sounds great - thanks for the reply. My thinking is to drop the CRS down the overflow pipe so it has a chance to mix into the wort a bit before being recirculated

Sounds like a good plan, I would probably give the mash a good stir too.

I assume the sparge water should still be 20ppm so I can pretreat that

Yep thumb

 

[Fritzpoll85]

So today was brewday. Mashed according to the recipe above, except I dropped the first mash step to 20 mins. Did a 90min boil in the end.

No sticking on the mash or sparge this time, so going to unscientifically attribute that to the oat husks

Got around 19.5L into the fermenter.

Refractometer told me 12.6% brix or 1.051 OG, which is only 4 below target. The calibrated Tilt in the fermenter says 1.060. More inclined to trust the refractometer, but open to thoughts.

Rehydrated the yeast before pitching. Holding around 18 until fermentatiom starts then plan to do the main stretch at 19 degrees C

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Update: woke up this morning and it is bubbling like a mad thing again. Hopefully will be another quick ferment. But going to leave it at 18 degrees on second thoughts.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

I've got a problem. The airlock activity collapsed to nothing overnight last night. The Tilt has now been stuck at 1.032 which is well above where I'd like it.

I've tried bumping the temperature up to 20 degrees C and I agitated the fermenter a bit but no change. Any advice?

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Thinking 1 pack of M20 might not have been enough so maybe I should bung another pack in?

 

[Fritzpoll85]

I pitched another pack of rehydrated yeast yesterday. I got a bit of airlock activity but it has stopped again now. Tilt reading 1.031.

Really disappointed. Not sure what has gone wrong. Only thing is if there weren't enough fermentable sugars, but what did I get wrong in the mashing stage for that to happen?

 

[strange-steve]

First of all are you certain about the tilt reading? You said there was a 9 point difference between it and the refractometer for the OG, I'd probably pull a sample and double check check with a hydrometer before anything else.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

First of all are you certain about the tilt reading? You said there was a 9 point difference between it and the refractometer for the OG, I'd probably pull a sample and double check check with a hydrometer before anything else.

Hi @strange-steve. Possible the tilt is miscalibrated, I suppose

Sadly my hydrometer broke a couple if months ago and I haven't replaced it. I pulled a sample and did a refractometer check (notes from yesterday are 6.6 to 6.8% brix) but don't know how to adjust the reading for the alcohol or if it is possible (Google is not helping me there!)

 

[Fritzpoll85]

I almost immediately found this:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
I'll pull a sample before sunset and see what it comes out with. Could just be that the tilt is horrifically off calibration

Edit: OK, so interestingly the refractometer now reads 5.6% brix compared to yesterday at 6.6% but the tilt hasn't moved. Combined with overnight bubbling at the airlock, and I think it is safe to question if the tilt is working. The calculator above pops that at 5.8% ABV, incidentally, which would be bang on target....maybe all is not lost? :-)

 

[strange-steve]

the refractometer now reads 5.6% brix

Is that before correction? If so then it's actually somewhere between 1.4 and 2.4° brix (depending which calculator you use), or between 1.005 and 1.009 FG.