Gales 1977 Silver Jublilee (Yeast)

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peebee

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… I'm not sure whether 1.035 is particularly typical or not but I'm following my own bottle culturing guide which I know definately works …
I always use 1.035 - 1.037. The explanation I gleaned wasn't so much how stressed the yeast gets, but how stressed you will get making it, and …

50g dried malt extract in 500ml water equals (approx.) SG 1.037.
 

peebee

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I dont trust myself enough to build one. I'm terrified I'll burn my whole block of flats down in a massive electrical fire :laugh8:
Ah, it's easy. First you wire your switch, and you don't have to worry about a few sparks, they won't hurt. Then you get a fan and mount it over the sparkling switch …
 

MyQul

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I always use 1.035 - 1.037. The explanation I gleaned wasn't so much how stressed the yeast gets, but how stressed you will get making it, and …

50g dried malt extract in 500ml water equals (approx.) SG 1.037.
I dont like DME, I prefer holland and barrett LME for starters. H&B seem to be short of stock atm as I've been to 3 different ones and there's none on line either. So I made some wort this afternoon
 

MyQul

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The Gales strain is fairly flocculant so I just took it out of the fridge and added 250ml/1040 more wort after decanting off the the spent wort. Had a taste of the spent wort, and it tastes fine,like what it should do. No sourness. Super fruity
 

peebee

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I dont like DME, I prefer holland and barrett LME for starters. …
It don't matter, you're not going to drink it …
… it tastes fine,like what it should do. No sourness. Super fruity
Ah. You do don't you.

And see what you miss by not building a stir plate? Not only do you miss out on an impromptu house warmer, but you also miss out on some wonderfully oxidised samples.

(For those that don't know: A stir plate is to get loads more oxygen into the starter - that's what the yeast wants to grow, and why stir plates do the job quicker and more efficiently. Informational bulletin done, I'll just go back to being plain stupid now).
 

F00b4r

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And see what you miss by not building a stir plate? Not only do you miss out on an impromptu house warmer, but you also miss out on some wonderfully oxidised samples.

(For those that don't know: A stir plate is to get loads more oxygen into the starter - that's what the yeast wants to grow, and why stir plates do the job quicker and more efficiently. Informational bulletin done, I'll just go back to being plain stupid now).
A stir plate is used for keeping yeast suspended so they don’t flocculate out not for oxygenating starters. If you want to oxygenate a starter then you should use an oxygen wand or bubbler. If you have the stir plate turned up fairly high then you may be introducing some oxygen and subsequent oxidation but this is not what it is intended for. The objective should be growth of the yeast in phases and not actual fermentation, the yeast will be a healthier and with a lower lag phase if steps are taken to achieve the former. I know of at least one home brewer, who works with yeast for a living, who actually deliberately starts with a small portion of a yeast pouch and steps up slowly to ensure the best pitching health/state/rate of his yeast, I followed his advice on an old out of date White Labs packet and have never seen such vigorous fermentation.
 

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Keeping the yeast suspended seems like a good secondary reason to use stir plates too.
Surely, that's the primary reason for using a stir plate? It's what they are designed to do. If the goal was only to introduce oxygen to the wort, then there's probably better ways to do this, that doesnt introduce the risk of shear stresses on the yeast. However, you are correct that oxygen is also vital to yeast growth, but I'd argue the braukaiser article highlights this as a secondary benefit of stir plates, as good results are largely dependent on obtaining a strong vortex.

If one was to continually shake a starter, rather than shake every few hours, how would that compare to a stir plate?

I do wonder how 40 year old yeast cells would respond to all that swirling.
 
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peebee

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@Sadfield … a strong vortex creates a deeper "dimple" in the surface, which creates more surface area for gas exchange. … I think? (<<< "citation needed" :confused:).

Don't start with the "there's probably better ways to do this". Seeing all the apparatus available as agitators for labs I guess it wont be long before "stir-plates" are old-hat. I'm just getting used to stir-plates, please don't hasten their demise!
 

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I do wonder how 40 year old yeast cells would respond to all that swirling.
It seems to be loving it. It's one of the most vigorous, explosive culturing ups I've done. Loads of C02. I currently have it in a clear swing top bottle. Massively explosive off gasing when I open the swing top a little. Nice size krausen on the starter
 

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The Gales '77 has been in the fridge most of last week as I was on holiday. I put it in 600ml more wort a couple of days ago and have now got enough to pitch into a 10L brew if I want to. But I'm going to do a further step up and put what I have into about 1.7L. I'll then split it in roughly half and put half in the fridge and pitch the other half (probably the end of next week)
 

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... and have now got enough to pitch into a 10L brew if I want to...
Nice work athumb..

Slightly more general question, what do you mean by "enough", how are you measuring what is enough? (not criticising, just curious!)

The issue as I see it is anything you put into a year calculator is subject to garbage in = garbage out. Estimates vary a lot as to how much yeast is in 1ml slurry, plus I've sometimes harvested what seems to be a more "pure" yeast slurry than at other times!

But what seems to be the case is that by using step ups similar to yours you can end up with an amount of yeast in the bottom of your stir jar/bottle and just from experience basically eyeball it to say yeah that should be enough o_O:laugh8:
 

MyQul

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Nice work athumb..

Slightly more general question, what do you mean by "enough", how are you measuring what is enough? (not criticising, just curious!)

The issue as I see it is anything you put into a year calculator is subject to garbage in = garbage out. Estimates vary a lot as to how much yeast is in 1ml slurry, plus I've sometimes harvested what seems to be a more "pure" yeast slurry than at other times!

But what seems to be the case is that by using step ups similar to yours you can end up with an amount of yeast in the bottom of your stir jar/bottle and just from experience basically eyeball it to say yeah that should be enough o_O:laugh8:
Everything you've written is basically my thinking when talking about yeast and how much you have. As you've spotted, without a microscope and hectometer there's no way to know how much yeast you're starting with. Which is the major flaw with yeast calcs.
I've done this enough times to know how much yeast in the bottom of a two litre pop bottle will ferment 10L of your average 1.040 wort. So yes, I eyeball it
 

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Today is finally the day to have a go a culturing up the yeast from one of the old bottles that @terrym Very kindly sent me some time ago. :hat:
I could use the yeast in a session bitter/pale in 3 or 4 weeks if all goes to plan .

Have been having a look at this guide and like the idea of doing the first step in the bottle.
But starting with a tiny 2-3ml starter seems extreme so I might start with 15-20ml

 

MyQul

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Today is finally the day to have a go a culturing up the yeast from one of the old bottles that @terrym Very kindly sent me some time ago. :hat:
I could use the yeast in a session bitter/pale in 3 or 4 weeks if all goes to plan .

Have been having a look at this guide and like the idea of doing the first step in the bottle.
But starting with a tiny 2-3ml starter seems extreme so I might start with 15-20ml

2-3ml! Your right 15ml-20ml would be much better. I take it you've seen my bottle culturing guide ?


If I do a mild next I think I might revive my Gales '77 as it's still in the fridge from last november and the temp in my kitchen floor is getting towards perfect English ale yeast fermentation temp
 

dan125

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2-3ml! Your right 15ml-20ml would be much better. I take it you've seen my bottle culturing guide ?
Yes thanks athumb..
Think I'll give it a few days in the bottle with 20ml then go up to 50 or 100ml in a new bottle.
Have you brewed a batch with the gale's yet?
 

MyQul

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Yes thanks athumb..
Think I'll give it a few days in the bottle with 20ml then go up to 50 or 100ml in a new bottle.
Have you brewed a batch with the gale's yet?
Not yet. I cultured it up to a pitchable amount but then my kitchen floor/brewing area got too cold for it. So I've been waiting for it to warm up so I can try it out
 

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Mr lovely Mrs had to go to Wilko yesterday for 'ladies stuff' and, bless her, she picked me up some wine finings and some light DME so I'm culturing up the Ind Coope bottles I got from @terrym tonight, after recently having great success with culturing up the yeast from Butty Bach ( does anyone know the history of that yeast? It seems really good). @dan125 are you going to drink the vintage ale in yours? I'm game to give it a go and I'll report back.
 
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