General election & new Labour government thread.

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Which party will you vote for

  • Labour

  • Conservative

  • Reform

  • Green

  • SNP

  • Lib Dem

  • Still on the fence.

  • Plaid cymru

  • Local Independant


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One could say that in 2019 a single party government was voted in and yet in that time we had 3 separate PMs, each with their own ideas, and still the prime objective in 2019 hasn't been fully implemented.
So it needs a tweak of if the PM changes within the term then an election needs to be called within 6 months...
 
I mean look at Belgium...they can never form a government
https://www.federal-government.be/en seems to disgree with you on this one.
Thinking you can pull together a coalition of disparate parties that, on paper, share some values, and assuming that they will automatically play well together once in power is naive...
Choosing an electoral system on the assumption that different parties will never co-operate is deciding to fail rather than trying to succeed.
 
https://www.federal-government.be/en seems to disgree with you on this one.

Choosing an electoral system on the assumption that different parties will never co-operate is deciding to fail rather than trying to succeed.
doesn't matter either way...either you get a coalition that 'fails' to cooperate (and there are plenty of examples in the past where this has happened and caused massive deadlock) or succeeds and there is massive compromises made meaning none of the parties that make up the coalition actually delivers fully or maybe even at all for the people that voted them in. Either way not a very satisfactory system if you believe, like me, that government is not there to impose political dogma and actually there to deliver real practical solutions to real world problems.
 
https://www.federal-government.be/en seems to disgree with you on this one.

Ha..what a bunch of smiling assassins...not a trustworthy one amongst them I'd hazard a guess.

C'mon...Belgium politics is the biggest joke in Europe...The Belgians are the butt of French, German even Spanish jokes...even Luxembourgers.

May have a functioning though rather tense and delicate government today, its not always been the case...back in around 2020 they failed to form a government for over a year and a half due to inability of the various factions failing to come up with a deal so whatever deal was eventually struck is going to be a massive compromise for everyone involved....and I seem to remember there being similar deadlock in around 2008ish. Yeah...no thanks.
 
Question why the feck do the people of this Country keep voting for the same old ****, then spend 5 years whinging and moaning and then vote for the same old **** with a different color it really does baffle me, they are not going to change their little merry go round, you the people have to do it by voting for any old party other than the main stream one's
 
doesn't matter either way...either you get a coalition that 'fails' to cooperate (and there are plenty of examples in the past where this has happened and caused massive deadlock) or succeeds and there is massive compromises made meaning none of the parties that make up the coalition actually delivers fully or maybe even at all for the people that voted them in. Either way not a very satisfactory system if you believe, like me, that government is not there to impose political dogma and actually there to deliver real practical solutions to real world problems.

Not having to make compromise means you will have the imposition of ideological dogma. Compromise means both sides have to be pragmatic and enet somewhere in the middle. Autocracies get stuff done, and don't have to compromise, and I'm sure we'd agree that it is not a preferable system.
 
because they're all the same...think I've said before I dont believe that there is actually much the government of any colour can actually affect and change to actually make a difference and change things significantly. We've ceded too much of the political control away from government and into the hands of faceless, unaccountable and unelected bodies and institutions. Think this is the core root cause of peoples dissatisfaction and their feeling of being utterly powerless.
 
Question why the feck do the people of this Country keep voting for the same old ****, then spend 5 years whinging and moaning and then vote for the same old **** with a different color it really does baffle me, they are not going to change their little merry go round, you the people have to do it by voting for any old party other than the main stream one's

Some voted the same old **** in the same blue colour 😂

I'm no Labour supporter and I'm sceptical that they can achieve some of the stuff they have set out, but Starmer has made some astute moves, and has set a good tone in his first few days. After the **** we have witnessed for years, a serious approach to government feels like a substantial change.
 
Ok just catching up will throw in my tuppence,

Farage - love him or loathe him he is duly elected and has right to attend the house and respond to questions, as for not having the appointed rights to riase motions that is toothless anyway look at last parliament, the SNP were denied their motion as it did not suit the big 2, its a recorded fact and shows the commons is far from fair and just, BUT its the system we have and the electorate voted on, that should be respected.

Reform have rightly raised the issue of PR this election more than any has highlighted the huge issues FPTP delivers. Labour all conquering and powerful, but crunch the numbers if you on percentages and include those who did not vote 80% did not vote for Labour and Starmer knows it hence his speeches. Lib Dem and to a lesser extent Labour won big tome from FPTP, but you can't say its a true representation of the public vote if the %share does not translate into MPs .

The systems operated in Scotland and Wales does work some may disagree but it is much fairer in that you vote for your constituency – the local individual candidate to represent you. This portion is first past the post.
Second vote for regional vote – choosing a party or independent candidate to represent you, this is percentage of the vote used to calculate how many seats that given party or independent gets.

This is much fairer system as votes are not wasted.

There seems to be misconception that PR relies on collation, PR systems are meant to produce minority governments, to stop the railroading and whip systems of FPTP, each bill should be voted on its on merit and subject to genuine scrutiny in order to pass. Yes opposition can be stupid and work against the process but the electorate should remember that, the entire purpose is to produce a genuine cross party spectrum of ideas and bills. NI single transferable vote is another well worked system that offers a fair representation for the electorate.

Final point for the many who did not vote their choice but they should then not be allowed to criticise the government of the day if they played no part in electing them
 
Not having to make compromise means you will have the imposition of ideological dogma. Compromise means both sides have to be pragmatic and enet somewhere in the middle. Autocracies get stuff done, and don't have to compromise, and I'm sure we'd agree that it is not a preferable system.
That's a good point and if people were free from political dogma and in not in a combative competitive frame of mind...i.e. my political philosophy has to beat yours, with a genuine desire to 'do the right thing' or at least 'do right for the country' then I'd be agreeing with you.

But then one piece of evidence I'd offer up as an example of how the lack of need to compromise still doesnt guarantee the application of dogma is our old friend BoJo.....with the majority he had and the promises and commitments he made there was no reason why he shouldn't have delivered on everything...but he in fact did that absolute opposite and delivered on nothing.

We'll see what Starmer does with his majority and if he swings to implementing dogma for the sake of it or if he tries to genuinely fix real problems based on actual quantitive data and analysis rather than blindly implementing a far left socialist utopia....

We have to ultimately face the fact that the quality of our so called 'political elite' is not that great no matter which party you look at. They're all just simply incompetent.
 
Question why the feck do the people of this Country keep voting for the same old ****, then spend 5 years whinging and moaning and then vote for the same old **** with a different color it really does baffle me, they are not going to change their little merry go round, you the people have to do it by voting for any old party other than the main stream one's
I think they'd vote for someone else when there's a serious alternative. Personally I don't see Reform as a serious alternative, in the same way as I don't see the Greens as serious alternative. They probably both have some very talented people in both parties, but with the way the electoral system is I can't vote for those people, I have to vote for whatever fodder is put up in my constituency.
 
Which ones? This is just a rehash of the Brexit argument (something that was demonstrably untrue).
Don't think it's untrue at all. It remains a fact that the further away political decisions are made from the base electorate and into the hands of the faceless corrupt bureaucrats, especially those outside of the country, the less involved and in control we feel we are. It's no surprise that over the last 20 years or so any government has proven themselves to be utterly useless...because they are as we've ceded more and more powers away over that time.

We saw over the Rwanda bill that its really the lawyers and activists in charge and politicians don't have the power to enact the will of the people on the most basic and fundamental duty of any government...the defence and control of our boarders. That should worry you wether you thought Rwanda was a good thing or not..and I'd love to see how Starmer is going to extradite illegal immigrants without something like Rwanda where there is a third nation we can extradite immigrants to....if he thinks putting a few bobbies on the beat over in Calais is going to smash the gangs I think he's been on the funny juice too much. We've been trying to smash the drug gangs for 50 years and spent countless billions on it, but the drugs keep on flowing, more now than ever.

All the various quango's that now manage vast swathes of our lives have taken political power away from our politicians....and all done cynically and deliberately because when things go wrong they can put their hands up and say it wasn't them...it was them over there...the Bank of England is a classic example...'inflation isn't our problem its the bank of Englands mismanagement of interest rates...'

All the while our politicians are eyeing up even more international corrupt cartels like the WEF and COP who are and will have more more impact on those running our country...no surprise that there is hardly a cigarette paper between the manifestos of the main parties...none are really offering real change or a vision for the nation just more of the same because they know they have their hands tied behind their backs.

Farage would make a terrible PM and I hope he gets nowhere near power (and I'm not even sure he wants it), but I hope he and Reform get bigger and get more seats in parliament because at least they're stoking some debate on topics that are uncomfortable for the established parties, and trying to talk about the very things that millions of people up and down the country are concerned about...wether or not they should be concerned we don't know because we never get the opportunity to discuss it other than on the internet....but at least he'll expose these issues and hopefully we'll get to the bottom of them and then we'll know wether they are just all fluff and bluster or if they are real issues that need to be tackled.
 
Question why the feck do the people of this Country keep voting for the same old ****, then spend 5 years whinging and moaning and then vote for the same old **** with a different color it really does baffle me, they are not going to change their little merry go round, you the people have to do it by voting for any old party other than the main stream one's

We have gone over this many times until PPTP is changed we will always have a two party system, Reform proved it this time 4 million votes and only 1% of the seats?

Reform’s roughly four million votes translates into a 14% share of the total votes cast in the election, but only 1% of all the seats in the House of Commons.
 
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Posts moved, Can we keep the brexit debate in the brexit thread thanks
I thought we were talking about voting reform...
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