Help with basic Lager please

[pms67]

Hi guys
Any suggestions welcome
I have 4kg of lager malt
100g of Saaz
50g of Sabro
50g of Falconers Flight
2x packs of CML Hell yeast
Can someone please suggest an easy recipe with hop timing?
I’m happy to purchase anything else required (Carapils,Crystal,Flaked rice etc)
Just something a bit hoppy and very easy drinking would be ace
Cheers guys

 

[An Ankoù]

You could make a 20 litre batch with what you've got.
The 4Kg of Lager malt will give you an OG approaching1050.
Assuming your Saaz is about 3% alpha acid you could use 80g FWH for in an 80 minute boil. Add half a protofloc or some Irish moss for the last 10 minutes and also 10g of the remaining Saaz, then the final 10g of Saaz for the last 5 minutes. Don't use the Falconer's Flight or the Sabro if you wan't something like a "Continental" lager.
I don't know the yeast, but it sounds like a lager yeast. If it's a dry yeast, rehydrate it first.
Pitch at 15-16C or even a bit warmer and then as soon as it starts fermenting keep it down around 10-12C.
And Bob's your uncle.

 

[pms67]

Thanks that sounds good
******** I’m going to need to order ale malt to use these other hops up!

 

[Brewnaldo]

You could make a 20 litre batch with what you've got.
The 4Kg of Lager malt will give you an OG approaching1050.
Assuming your Saaz is about 3% alpha acid you could use 80g FWH for in an 80 minute boil. Add half a protofloc or some Irish moss for the last 10 minutes and also 10g of the remaining Saaz, then the final 10g of Saaz for the last 5 minutes. Don't use the Falconer's Flight or the Sabro if you wan't something like a "Continental" lager.
I don't know the yeast, but it sounds like a lager yeast. If it's a dry yeast, rehydrate it first.
Pitch at 15-16C or even a bit warmer and then as soon as it starts fermenting keep it down around 10-12C.
And Bob's your uncle.

For the Sabro, maybe a single hop ale? I am interested in doing that myself and am about to do a GH one with Amarillo.

As for your lager, Pilsner malt and Saaz gives as good results as you can want, and I feel like I am just going around the forum sharing my experiences of CML Hell atm but it's a great yeast, fermented fast, flocks hard and tastes neutral, it works fine at 15 to 16. I actually got some diacetyl there and didnt give it a rest so be weary of that.

I also just ran a batch at 20 as it never really got started at first (my fault, long story).

TL;DR.... Do wot An Ankou said

 

[pms67]

I have a fermentation fridge so temp control is ok

 

[Brew_DD2]

IPL. Falconer's flight and Saaz in whirlpool and dry hop with Sabro. Buy a small amount of a bittering hop for 60 mins addition.

 

[MickDundee]

IPL. Falconer's flight and Saaz in whirlpool and dry hop with Sabro. Buy a small amount of a bittering hop for 60 mins addition.

IPL always makes me giggle because I immediately think “Invisible Panty Line”.

 

[pms67]

IPL always makes me giggle because I immediately think “Invisible Panty Line”.

You mean it’s not? Awwwww I’ve already printed the labels!!!!!!

 

[Edison]

After 5 years trying to get a really clean lager, my latest batch of helles is looking to be the best so far.

I would suggest mashing at the low end for at least an hour, lagers should usually be light bodied and my setup usually favours going fuller if I’m not careful.

If you have good temperature control I would highly reccomend chilling the wort to 10c BEFORE pitching the yeast. Make sure you added yeast nutrient to the last 10 minutes of the boil and if you can add pure O2 prior to pitching yeast. I used Lallbrew Diamond (2 packs) and rehydrated them strictly following the time and temperature guidelines on the spec sheet (added to 10x weight of boiled, cooled water at 25c, gentle stir and leave for 15 minutes I think, then a good stir, leave for another 5, always holding the temperature at a steady 25c, then slowly bring the temp down to 10c no more than 10 degrees per 5 minutes, then pitch. I use a small water bath for this).

Yes it’s a faff, but if you’re trying to get a perfect lager, it’s worth it.

Fermentation profile was hold at 10c for 5 days, then 3 days at 13c, 2 at 16c, 2 at 18c. If you’ve hit FG at this point you’re good to package. I would recommend fining/filtering if you want it crystal clear.

As always, hygiene and good process is key to lager, there’s nowhere to hide mistakes!

 

[Galena]

Just planning my first lager a Czech Pilsner, after packaging (in bottles) I presume you carbonate at room temperature prior to conditioning for a few weeks at 3C or so?

 

[Edison]

I don’t often bottle, and haven’t a lager, but yes, I would suggest a week or two at cool room temperature (~18c) then chill to serve. They should continue to condition further in bottle, but don’t think they need to be held cold as any off flavours thrown by the yeast would have happened in the first week of primary. That’s my thinking anyway, but I’ve been proved wrong before!

 

[Galena]

I don’t often bottle, and haven’t a lager, but yes, I would suggest a week or two at cool room temperature (~18c) then chill to serve. They should continue to condition further in bottle, but don’t think they need to be held cold as any off flavours thrown by the yeast would have happened in the first week of primary. That’s my thinking anyway, but I’ve been proved wrong before!

Thanks, it's just that I have read in a few places that it needs conditioning at fridge temperatures for a few weeks?

 

[Edison]

Ah ok, what times and temperatures did you have it in the FV?

 

[Galena]

Ah ok, what times and temperatures did you have it in the FV?

I havent yet, just planning but I intend to use WLP802 Fermentation 10C for 5 days, 11C for 1 day, 12C for 8 days

 

[Edison]

Ah, I see! I followed this advice this time around:

https://beerandbrewing.com/how-to-s....15.20+EDIT&utm_content=Stop+Worrying+&+Lager
It looks like at the end of this it is fully conditioned, but will probably benefit by longer time in the bottle if you can. I think keeping the bottles cooler once the priming in the bottle has done it’s job isn’t going to do any harm and yes may help preserve delicate flavours for longer if you have that as an option.

Your schedule doesn’t look like it has a diacetyl rest, usually I would raise the temperature gently up to 16-18c once you’re at least halfway to FG to keep the yeast active and consuming their byproducts and keep any buttery flavours at bay. If you follow your planned schedule (there’s more than one way to skin a cat) I would suggest doing a forced diacetyl test before packaging to confirm the yeast has properly finished cleaning up.

Lagers can be challenging, I’m still trying to perfect the process!

 

[Galena]

I would raise the temperature gently up to 16-18c once you’re at least halfway to FG to keep the yeast active and consuming their byproducts and keep any buttery flavours at bay

Okay, I will give that a go, thank you

 

[Cestrian]

Agree with Edison - get the temperature up slowly to 18C after first 5 days or so. Hold it there for a few days for a diacetyl rest, then drop to lager temperature 2-3C. I have read that dropping the temperature from 18C down to 3C quickly can affect head retention, but not sure how true that is. Also read it can affect the lagering because you don't want to shock the yeast. They are still cleaning up any off flavours at the lower temperature. So I drop the temperature about 2-3C per day. This is just my standard method now. I've made 5 or 6 lagers over the last few months and they all turned out great. Also, the longer you lager the better it seems to get.

 

[MickDundee]

Also read it can affect the lagering because you don't want to shock the yeast. They are still cleaning up any off flavours at the lower temperature. So I drop the temperature about 2-3C per day. This is just my standard method now.

Same here - I’ve been doing 4C a day - 2C every 12 hours or thereabouts. Generally 2C when I do the bins in the morning and 2C before I run the kids’ bath.

 

[Edison]

Yeah, I was impatient this time, I was happy it was done after 3-4 days at 18c so harvested the yeast, racked to the BBT (modified corny) and crashed it straight down to 0.5c on Monday. Planning to rack to the serving keg this afternoon. Next time I may try some vegan finings, I normally have no problem with haze in beer, but I think lagers should be nice and bright personally.

 

[Galena]

Cool, thanks for all the input, also just reading THIS FROM WHITELABS now. So Diacetyl rest it is. Finings wise I have been using Chisotan in most brews, not vegan but seems to do a decent job.