Home made Candi Sugar

[BeerCat]

Last night i was dissolving some sugar in water to make some red wine and got sidetracked. When i came back i realised i had made what looked like a white syrup. I turned my back again and it had gone a dark brown. Anyway i set it out of curiosity and now have a 500g lump of this slightly burned tasting toffee. Its not totally unpleasant so wondering if i can get away with using it in a brew. I have never tried the Belgium Candi crystals before so cant compare. Here is an article on making Candi Sugar and Syrup http://www.franklinbrew.org/wp/?page_id=391

Guessing as always would of helped if i had the right tools, a thermometer.

 

[IainM]

Sure, if it tastes good, use it. If you didn't use acid and don't know how long it spent over 120C, then you can't be sure that its completely inverted, but it will still be fermentable. I'd use it to thin out something malty / high-gravity. I think it would go well with a spiced winter ale, toffee apple cider, a Belgian ale, something like that.

 

[MyQul]

It wont invert into candi sugar without acid. The acid helps the sugar to break down from sucrose into fructose and glucose. You've probably got a lump of toffee like sucrose but you could use it in a brew. It'll be the same as any sugary adjuct for the purposes of how much abv%/OG it will add

Saying that my efforts wern't much better. I tried to make some last week and ended up with what MrsMQ described as mash potato mixed with concrete :lol:

 

[jceg316]

I've found this



very useful, and it's British so measurements are metric and sensible. I tried it to make light candi sugar but got massively impatient and turned off the boil early. The beer I put it in actually managed to get a range of problems developing with it so I can't say whether the rushed candi sugar had an effect, but got the gravity to right levels.

I'm about to make some soon for a Mikkeller Monk's Brew clone, will be more patient this time!

 

[BeerCat]

Thanks all of you for the fast answers. Saved me loads of time looking on the net. I forgot to add i did add a pinch of citric acid at one point but this could of been after it had already darkened. I found a Candi thermometer on ebay for �£3 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apollo-Co...358334?hash=item541843efbe:g:WxcAAMXQd75SIb~v so will be having a go again for sure. I like the idea of a Spice Winter Ale and have a couple of brown demijohns sitting about doing nothing. Looks like i will have to devise a recipe next. Cheers :)

 

[MyQul]

If you added acid you might well have inverted the sugar. By the looks of the vid you might have boiled off all the water and made some candi "rock" rather than the syrup.

The thing is HBers have to ask themselves why they're making/adding candi sugar? If it's to boost ABV you can use other stuff, DME, dextrose, even plain sugar white. If it's for flavour you can probably get the flavours you get from the darker candi sugars from various types of crystal.
Nothing wrong in wanting to make it, 'just to have a go' though. Just make sure you don't end up with concrete mash potato like me

 

[GHW]

Thanks all of you for the fast answers. Saved me loads of time looking on the net. I forgot to add i did add a pinch of citric acid at one point but this could of been after it had already darkened. I found a Candi thermometer on ebay for ���£3 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apollo-Co...358334?hash=item541843efbe:g:WxcAAMXQd75SIb~v so will be having a go again for sure. I like the idea of a Spice Winter Ale and have a couple of brown demijohns sitting about doing nothing. Looks like i will have to devise a recipe next. Cheers :)

That looks like a lump of slag!

 

[Notlaw]

That looks like a lump of slag!

My ex-missus looks nowt like that.

 

[GHW]

My ex-missus looks nowt like that.

Ba-dum-tish!

Also fixed the original. Not sure what 'slump of slag' is. Don't think I want to know either.

 

[jceg316]

If you added acid you might well have inverted the sugar. By the looks of the vid you might have boiled off all the water and made some candi "rock" rather than the syrup.

The thing is HBers have to ask themselves why they're making/adding candi sugar? If it's to boost ABV you can use other stuff, DME, dextrose, even plain sugar white. If it's for flavour you can probably get the flavours you get from the darker candi sugars from various types of crystal.
Nothing wrong in wanting to make it, 'just to have a go' though. Just make sure you don't end up with concrete mash potato like me

I'm into my Belgian beers which usually ask for candi sugar, and I've tried replacing with normal sugar but the texture is different. Is there something unfermentable in candi sugar/normal white sugar?

 

[MyQul]

I'm into my Belgian beers which usually ask for candi sugar, and I've tried replacing with normal sugar but the texture is different. Is there something unfermentable in candi sugar/normal white sugar?

As far as I'm aware no. There all just different types of sugar but (I'm pretty sure) all equally fermentable. The only real difference I'm aware of is white sugar (sucrose) is a disccharide whereas candi sugar is made up of two monosaccharides, glucose and fructose - which the sucrose breaks down into when you invert it.

I did read an opinion on a forum that stated that the person thought the bond that holds to two glucose and fructose molecules together was (partly?) responsible for what we know as home brew twang. Perhaps this (also) gives the different texture that your experiencing?

 

[brumbrew]

Dad_of_jon can probably help you on this one. He puts candi sugar in everything! I wouldn't be surprised if his blood has inverted. ;-)

 

[IainM]

I'm into my Belgian beers which usually ask for candi sugar, and I've tried replacing with normal sugar but the texture is different. Is there something unfermentable in candi sugar/normal white sugar?

Yes. Not so much with white candi, but definitely with the darker stuff there is all sorts of chemistry going on. The fructose and glucose decompose into all manner of volatile molecules which contribute to the aroma of candi, including furans, diacetyl, ethyl acetate and maltol. The mono- and di-saccharides also cross-react to produce many different non-fermentable sugar chains. The amounts of these will be small compared to the fructose and glucose, but they do contribute to the texture of the syrup and I wouldn't be surprised if this carries through to the beer.

 

[jceg316]

MyQul - I've read that normal sugar can add those undesirable flavours, like metal or cider etc., as long as it's above 20% of the grain bill. I've never had those flavours from adding any sugars. The worst I get is when I used demerara sugar for bottling, it imparts an overwhelming licorice taste to my beers which I don't appreciate. It dies down with a lot of time but never fully disappears.

IainM thanks for the explanation!

 

[BeerCat]

It tastes more like a boiled sweet than sugar. The Mrs said mine tastes burned though so probably wont be using it. I don't have the right thermometer yet but i may have another go at making some this weekend. maybe add some water every 5 mins and keep the heat down. Oh well if it wasn't for my mistake i would not of known how easy it is. You can save yourself about £4 a kilo making it.

 

[BeerCat]

That looks like a lump of slag!

Now you mention it does look like something used in repairing roads.:thumb:

 

[dad_of_jon]

Dad_of_jon can probably help you on this one. He puts candi sugar in everything! I wouldn't be surprised if his blood has inverted. ;-)

yup my blood has inverted, but only after drinking a little star san (acid of course) and heating myself up in a sauna.:lol:

The yeast prefer not to have to break down disaccharides so candi sugar saves them the trouble. it lightens the body of the beer and adds abv so stronger beers aren't to syrupy. substitute it for sugar and taste the difference :-)

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/pale-belgian-sugar-experiment-tasting.html

or use golden syrup as a cheaper alternative ;-)

 

[MyQul]

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/03/pale-belgian-sugar-experiment-tasting.html

or use golden syrup as a cheaper alternative ;-)

After my concrete mash potato disaster I did just that in a bitter I used MJ Dark Ale yeast in (it only had about 68% attenuation). I'm hoping the GS will lighen the body and make the beer a bit thinner/dryer

 

[BeerCat]

Managed to burn the milk was using for yoghurt earlier so skulked of out to the pub. Burn should be my middle name. Was gonna have another crack tonight but probably best left til tomorrow.
Wondering how much I can add to a brew? Was thinking of 25%

 

[MyQul]

Managed to burn the milk was using for yoghurt earlier so skulked of out to the pub. Burn should be my middle name. Was gonna have another crack tonight but probably best left til tomorrow.
Wondering how much I can add to a brew? Was thinking of 25%

No idea but a lot of the bitter recipes I've seen using it are around 10%