Hopping accident

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peebee

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Help!

Beer has just about finished fermenting (45L) and I was tidying up the log of it: There was this line in the ingredient list that I just couldn't recall, which I eventually figured out simply wasn't added. Worse still, it was a hop addition, and not just a "miscellaneous" addition but the flippin' main addition. My fermenting beer is short of about 13.5 IBUs (out of what I thought was about 30 IBUs, i.e. about half the intended bitterness).

Going to have to do something. I can get "Ritchies Isomerised Hop Extract" but can't find much info about it, except one suggestion it's 6% isomerised Alpha Acid (with no idea where they got that from). With this information plugged into "Beersmith" I get a dose of 11ml in 45 litres.

Does this seem right to anyone who's used the stuff before?

I dug up one suggestion that using this extract will give an "artificial flavour" that might take some time to mature out. Is that right?

(EDIT: This is where I got the AA% value, and where I will probably order it: https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Isomerised-Hop-Extract-100ml.html)
 
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Sadfield

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How does it taste? Given how poor humans are at perceiving differences in bitterness, perhaps a strong hop tea may nudge it in the right direction.

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Cwrw666

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Just take a few couple of pints of your wort, add the hops you missed, boil it for an hour then when it's cooled add it back to your brew. I think that would work.
 

peebee

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Thanks very much. Uses a different method than quoting the "6% iso-AA" figure (snatched out of thin air?) - 1ml provides 69IBU in 1L - but the resulting figure is in the same ballpark which is reassuring and is erring on he cautious side so I'll go with that (I can still use Beersmith to judge the dose if I tweak the AA figure to match - 7.4% does it). This brings the dose to 8.9ml in 45L.


(EDIT: That isomerised hop extract quote above isn't "Ritchies", hence they can quote "6%". So any suggestion "Ritchies" is 6% iso-AA is doubtful).
 
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peebee

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How does it taste? Given how poor humans are at perceiving differences in bitterness, perhaps a strong hop tea may nudge it in the right direction.
I'm going to go with the isomerised hop extract - "hop tea" sounds dodgy as I understand it has to be boiled a while (60 minutes?) 'cos I'm after bitterness not aroma/taste. And it may result in significant dilution?

Tastes alright - a plus for liquid yeasts which I've been a bit dismissive of previously ("Yorkshire" yeast this time). But it is missing half its bittering hops in an only moderately hopped recipe, so I think I'll notice that (calculated 30IBUs of which 13-14IBU never made it. I see how I made the mistake: Using a Beersmith worksheet printout and playing with "first wort hop" additions - on the worksheet these hops get put into their own section, not the "boil ingredients" so I accidentally skipped over them. Note to self: Don't mess about with "first wort hops"; it aint worth it.

As I make big quantities I'm now planning on just correcting one keg (half the full batch) and then correct the second after seeing how it goes. They are Corny kegs and I can dose these via the gas port (while the keg is pressured - I've done it before, not that there will be much pressure, 3-5PSI?).

What is the beer? An underhopped bitter could just be a mild, kinda...
It's an Old Peculier clone, and I think about 16-7IBU will be too "mild".

Just take a few couple of pints of your wort, add the hops you missed, boil it for an hour then when it's cooled add it back to your brew. I think that would work.
Thanks. But no-way will I "cook" a fermented beer, even just a sample. Just couldn't bring myself to doing it.
 
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MyQul

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Just take a few couple of pints of your wort, add the hops you missed, boil it for an hour then when it's cooled add it back to your brew. I think that would work.
This ^^^

I've done this a number of times but for the flavour and aroma addition and it worked well. So I would be confident it would work for a bittering addition too
 

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Isnt it a myth you cant boil hops in water. I read a thread for raw beer and the hops are boiled in plain water. I have not tried it yet but intend to. Cant see why it wont work. The isomerised stuff is meant to be good, another thing i want to try.
 

Sadfield

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Isnt it a myth you cant boil hops in water. I read a thread for raw beer and the hops are boiled in plain water. I have not tried it yet but intend to. Cant see why it wont work. The isomerised stuff is meant to be good, another thing i want to try.
I would have thought so, water is just very low gravity wort. Given that hop utilisation decreases as gravity increases, I'd expect quite bit of bitterness in a short boil in water, especially if one was to use high Alpha Acid hops. The higher pH of water will improve utilisation, also.

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Cwrw666

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water is just very low gravity wort
`Adam's Ale'.

The reason I suggested boiling the bittering hops in wort rather than plain water is that presumably you wouldn't be diluting the beer, though you would of course slightly reduce the ABV.
 

dad_of_jon

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Help!

Beer has just about finished fermenting (45L) and I was tidying up the log of it: There was this line in the ingredient list that I just couldn't recall, which I eventually figured out simply wasn't added. Worse still, it was a hop addition, and not just a "miscellaneous" addition but the flippin' main addition. My fermenting beer is short of about 13.5 IBUs (out of what I thought was about 30 IBUs, i.e. about half the intended bitterness).

Going to have to do something. I can get "Ritchies Isomerised Hop Extract" but can't find much info about it, except one suggestion it's 6% isomerised Alpha Acid (with no idea where they got that from). With this information plugged into "Beersmith" I get a dose of 11ml in 45 litres.

Does this seem right to anyone who's used the stuff before?

I dug up one suggestion that using this extract will give an "artificial flavour" that might take some time to mature out. Is that right?

(EDIT: This is where I got the AA% value, and where I will probably order it: https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Isomerised-Hop-Extract-100ml.html)
I've used both bittering and flavouring hop extracts and I did get an artificial flavour although it I put that down the carrier it was suspended in its the same stuff they use in cheap flavourings. anyways I have the 6% alpha acid and I calculated 1ml of extract in 10000ml (10litres liquid) = 6 ibu.

this is what I came up with....

1ml hop/10000ml or 10 litres water = 6ibu
therefore

2.15ml = 6 ibu for 21.5 litres
so if I want 15 ibu....
15 ibu = 15/6 = 2.5 increase = 2.15ml x 2.5 = 5.37
5.37 = 15 ibu - but because I can only measure in 1ml increments...
6 ml = 16.7 ibu

I will open up a wheat beer for you with the same bittering and flavor aroma extracts (purely in the interest of science ;) )

be back in 5 ......
 

Sadfield

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`Adam's Ale'.

The reason I suggested boiling the bittering hops in wort rather than plain water is that presumably you wouldn't be diluting the beer, though you would of course slightly reduce the ABV.
Agree this would be the best option. Although the beer has fermented out and would require some extra wort.

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Brewed_Force

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I have boiled hops in water when I was making extract brews. Turned out great!
I've heard a lot of old wives tales about what you must or mustn't do when brewing....
 

dad_of_jon

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I've used both bittering and flavouring hop extracts and I did get an artificial flavour although it I put that down the carrier it was suspended in its the same stuff they use in cheap flavourings. anyways I have the 6% alpha acid and I calculated 1ml of extract in 10000ml (10litres liquid) = 6 ibu.

this is what I came up with....

1ml hop/10000ml or 10 litres water = 6ibu
therefore

2.15ml = 6 ibu for 21.5 litres
so if I want 15 ibu....
15 ibu = 15/6 = 2.5 increase = 2.15ml x 2.5 = 5.37
5.37 = 15 ibu - but because I can only measure in 1ml increments...
6 ml = 16.7 ibu

I will open up a wheat beer for you with the same bittering and flavor aroma extracts (purely in the interest of science ;) )

be back in 5 ......
well I used a full pack of citralicious & peach melba from hop sensations as well as a few ml of the isomerized extract. they work better with a weizen yeast because they blend well with the banana from the yeast. but if the hops are the showpiece and nothing else (like in a hoppy tripel I did) the extracts may be found wanting.

p.s. i'll happily send you a bottle if you want, once it's carbonated. It has low bitterness even for a wheat beer thought!
 

peebee

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well I used a full pack of citralicious & peach melba from hop sensations as well as a few ml of the isomerized extract. they work better with a weizen yeast because they blend well with the banana from the yeast. but if the hops are the showpiece and nothing else (like in a hoppy tripel I did) the extracts may be found wanting.

p.s. i'll happily send you a bottle if you want, once it's carbonated. It has low bitterness even for a wheat beer thought!
Thanks very much. Your earlier calculation helped confirm what I was about to do was in the right area (9ml in 45L to increase IBUs by about 13-14). So I'm not so racked with anxiety!

Ands thanks for the offer to send a bottle. But I'm committed to the extract now (well it's on its way, not in the beer yet) so I'll not be dithering waiting on your "sample" (as you are willing to send a sample you are proving using these extracts isn't going to result in something horrid). Though I've taken note of your comment that it will impart something of an artificial flavour - I'll go cautiously - although I've also noted the artificial flavour it imparts isn't so great that it stops you doing it.

I've got Ritchies extract which doesn't specify the strength, but going with other information I can estimate about 7.0-7.5%. If it turns out to be closer to 6% at least I'll not be overdoing it.
 

dad_of_jon

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No probs, I would have put some more bittering in but ahem :roll: it was at the back of the fridge and it froze so i'd have upped the bitterness a bit more.

I like your logic, re samples I know it won't be my favorite beer but I do know my girls are going to wolf it down as they prefer less bitter, sweeter fruity beers!
 

F00b4r

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Let us know how you get along with the extract as I have heard it can take a little while to smooth out (I actually bought some to experiment with but have never got around to using it).
 

peebee

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… I've heard a lot of old wives tales about what you must or mustn't do when brewing....
I don't know any old wives from which to hear advise. Perhaps I am an old wife and listen to my own tales?

Anyway, so I guess you don't collect your brewing water from a local stream on a full moon after midnight?

Weirdo.
 

peebee

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Let us know how you get along with the extract as I have heard it can take a little while to smooth out (I actually bought some to experiment with but have never got around to using it).
Got you. But it will be a while. Beer like this will need 4-6 weeks maturing anyway, which will hopefully be time for any "unwelcome" side-effects from the extract to mellow out (?).

I've always added treacle/molasses to my "Old Perculier" clones (that's a 35 year "always"!). This is the first time without. Can't think this hop extract will be doing as much damage as the molasses, and I've been putting up with that.
 

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