How important is maturation? And other issues.

[WilliamGladstone99]

Hello I have brewed a few beers and most of them have been quite light hoppy numbers which have tasted fine out of the keg after only a few days.
However, I have brewed a beer whose original gravity was around 1040. According to GW book this needs 4 weeks maturation. Is this really the case?
This may be due to the Challenger hops which are strong and acidic.
I am tempted to think acidity falls into two categories: industrial acidity which is unpleasant and can only be removed by maturing; and hoppy acidity which is actually pleasant.
Would anyone like to comment on this? Which hops lead to beers which need long maturation and which do not?
Another question relates to suitable lid for the keg
I wonder if anyone can help me here. Most of the equipment I have comes from a Woodfordes Wherry Micro Brewery beer kit. I am now maturing a brew in the secondary fermentation vessel that came with this kit.
Only question is: since this kit came with two lids, have I put the right lid on for the secondary fermentation?
These kits come with two kinds of lid: one is a standard lid which is basically airtight but allows for some air infiltration to allow the internal pressure of the barrel to adjust as beer is emptied out: the second type has a CO2 injector valve where you can attach a small cylinder of the aforesaid gas ( as used on soda bottles).
Normally you attach first kind of lid during primary fermentation. I, thinking I was doing the right thing, attached the second.
Was this a mistake? It is very difficult to drain out any beer, via the lower tap, unless gas, of some sort, is filling the top space created by the vacating beer.
I suppose the advantage of using the first method was the escape valve could allow the escape of any C02 created as yeast ferments any sugars etc left.
The advantages of the second method is I suppose that gas above beer can only be inert C02.
At any rate, my maturation process does not seem to be going well.
Which is the most suitable lid?

 

[Duxuk]

I'm a great believer in trying my beers at every stage!
Hops will continue to isomerise and lose their fresher flavours with time, so many beers are just as good, if different, drunk young. Citra in particular, can be at it's best as soon as carbonation is completed. I do often find that the flavour cleans up and becomes more homogenised after 4 weeks in the bottle though. That's 2 weeks to carbonate and 2 to rest.
Older beers can often taste more mellow. I have just tried my first brew using Galaxy hops and have been suprised to find that it's quite bitter. I will leave it another month before I try another in the hope that it will improve.
I don't know if others would agree but I find that beer seems to improve quicker in a pressure keg than it does in bottles, the opposite of what you might expect.

 

[Rivvo]

I was speaking to the guy in the HBS yesterday about the pressure cornie, and he reckons that it would be ready after a couple of days in the cornie as the gas carbonates the beer and you don't have to put sugar in and wait for it to carbonate, I was quite keen but £130 plus the gas pipes etc is a bit rich for me, I'll try and concentrate on it getting to taste good first :|

 

[Vossy1]

I'm a great believer in trying my beers at every stage!

I totally agree D. Yes it's stated 1 week maturation for every 10 gravity points but tbh, I think that's a left over being repeated from the distant past when kits weren't the best.
Most micros have their beer on the bar asap, they couldn't afford to keep it hanging around and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me. You may also find you prefer your beer at a particular stage, for instance I don't like light hoppy beers post 4 weeks as they start to lose there hop character, or the sharpness of character that I like. I will say I prefer to age kits though, they're not the same as AG from my experience.
We're all different, it's a case of what you find you prefer :drink:

I was speaking to the guy in the HBS yesterday about the pressure cornie, and he reckons that it would be ready after a couple of days in the cornie as the gas carbonates the beer and you don't have to put sugar in and wait for it to carbonate

T'is true

 

[beerhunter]

I had to read the thread title twice then! :shock:

 

[graysalchemy]

I think it depends on the beer. A hoppy American pale is best drunk young so you get the full intensity of the hops. You certainly as V says lose the hops however I think they mellow into a more complex drink. I have an american pale which is 10 months old and though the intensity of the citrus notes has gone it has mellowed into a grapefruit marmalade on toast, very moorish.

My bitters I often find are coming into peak just as I am finishing a batch usually after 6+ months. They take on a more complex layered flavour though more rounded.

Most micros have their beer on the bar asap, they couldn't afford to keep it hanging around and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Have to disagree there V. We only drink green beer and subsequently enjoy it as that is all that is available on the commercial front. Similar to lager drinkers enjoying tasteless cold sh*te because that is what they are told that they will enjoy. If we were to experience beer matured for a month or so longer in the cask then they would be even more remarkable beers, with ultimately more complex flavours developing, but that's never going to happen. :lol: :lol:

 

[WilliamGladstone99]

Thanks for the help guys.
Just as a good red wine must be allowed to breathe so a maturing ale must allow C02 to escape and a small amount of air to replenish the void above the beer.
So would anyone like to hazard a guess as to the best approach to sealing the top of the keg? I outlined two approaches above.

 

[graysalchemy]

No the beer must be under co2 and not air. Air will oxidise the beer something you don't want. :thumb:

 

[Moley]

I had to read the thread title twice then! :shock:

I'm glad it wasn't just me - it's time I went to SpecSavers

 

[WilliamGladstone99]

Yes I realise that C02 will preserve beer but…..
The real problem is the slightly dodgy taste my current batch of beer has.
To begin at the beginning: I am now on my fourth brew. The first two brews were kits, the second were partials. The first kit worked out fine; the second not so fine. Similarly, the first partial worked out great, the second, where I am now……….
It’s been in the keg aka secondary fermentation vessel for about ten days now. Primary fermentation worked out quite well but after putting it in the secondary fermentation I tasted it after a few days and noticed an unpleasant taste.
My first partial used liberty hops. The second was a mixture of liberty and Challenger. Do Challenger hops take longer to mellow out?
I suppose we could all behave like chemists and use a chemical reading to determine wether the final brew has been contaminated. I realise that gravity readings is probably not the only way we need to determine what exactly is going on in the brew.
Will ageing remove the unpleasant aspect of the bittering flavouring or should I just accept my fourth batch is basically screwed?
50% failure rate is unacceptable.

 

[Fil]

use the tight lid while the beer is conditioning, that way the pressure will build up and condition the beer, the 2nd venting lid (im guessing) sounds like it cld be used when no co2 is used and your drinking the lot over a few days, with a tight lid and zero pressure the air will glug back thru the tap when u pour oxidising the bulk as he air bubbles up thru it, the venting lid will allow the air to enter at the top and if undisturbed it should sit above the heavier co2 blanketing the beer.

for the best shelf life use a co2 injector to maintain a positive pressure in the pb.

sampe the beer and sup it when its at its best, dont think a slight off taste is a bad batch it could easily be a flavour that needs a bit of time to mature and round off

some beers are lush green others take time..

i will happily sit on a brew for 6 months, if in doubt at all simply bottle a few up from each batch and sit on em for a few months and see the difference it makes yourself.

 

[serum]

Sorry to hijack the thread. I've just done kits so far but found that they often taste a bit watery after two weeks in the bottle and seem to gather a lot more flavour as time goes on. After 3 months they might as well be a completely different beer. This seems to benefit some but not others.

I've heard people talking about hops dying down over time but not the kinds of changes in flavour I've experienced.

What is it that makes the flavour develop in this way? Is this normal?

 

[oldjiver]

I havent done a kit for donkeys years, but I did a Wilko's lager months ago to see if kits had got better. I didn't like it at all :sick: However about 4 months later I found a bottle in the corner of the shed and it had improved quite a bit. My AG brews taste fresh and hoppy as soon as they are glass clear (I use Isinglass, so thats usually 2 weeks). The ones I have left are as smooth as silk but have lost their edge. So in my experience aging is important to kits but not so important to AG.