If you were starting again what would you buy?? Beer-kit brewing

[Keith[]]

Hi All,

A newbie to the forum and first post, and doing what I think a lot of people do and asking for a bit of a steer on that first set up/gear purchase. So thanks in advance and hopefully not too many silly questions/assumptions!

I've been thinking of doing some homebrews for some time and finally have the room to do it (built in garage which I can claim 50% from the wife for brewing), time might be a bit of a struggle with 2 kids but hoping kits will make the process doable based on what I've read so far.
Given the amount I'm spending on good beer atm and the fact I'm pretty certain I'll brew a good bit (to be able to drink it!) I am fairly happy with throwing up to 100 notes at a starter set up including a decent brew kit.

Beer wise, as I know that makes a difference, I'll mostly be trying to bre APA/AIA/IPA/NEPAs etc. Pretty much anything in the realms of Brew dog/Goose Island/Sierra Nevada/etc. or Brighton Bier/Laine/Bison given my current Sussex locale, although I have a soft spot for Boundary Brewery as its from back home (Northern Ireland).

Equipment
I've been looking at the starer sets on Brew2Bottle and had nearly settled on the Youngs Micro Brewery Ultimate starter kit until reading a thread on Pressure Barrells (hopefully this doesn't trigger anyone) and realising I'd rather have the convenience of bottling for chilling, so the PB included would likely go to waste and I'd still need to get some bottles (purchased with/without beer included).

I was then looking at picking up the Brew2Bottle Complete Deluxe 40 Pint Home Brew Starter Kit and a seperate beer/brew kit but just wondering if anyone has any reason why picking up things seperate/different spec to what is included in this kit would make sense?
Essentially would buying individually and adding say 10 or 20 quid now save pain/and money from rebuying in the long run?
I would probably be brewing in the garage so might need to think about some sort of heating element. Any smart ideas - I've seen a heat pad but uncertain if that the job or not.

Bottle wise I'm happy to go with the Coopers PET in the Brew2Bottle kit but just as happy to pick up a case of Lidl/Aldi glass bottles and a capper as have read for long time storage glass wins outright.

Beer-kit
Given what I like drinking I was thinking of starting with Mangrove Jacks Juicy IPA which I've read is top notch and possibly just starting with half a pouch.
Happy to be guided by others/input if this a good/bad place to start or better alternatives to begin with.

Any other newbie starter hints/tips/things you wish you'd read I'm all ears

If you've made it this far then well done and hopefully you'll be kind enough to share your experiences/thoughts etc.
Thanks,
Keith

 

[Graz]

Basically I think your on the right track. Starting with kit brewing is definitely the way to go as it teaches you the basic process and the importance of cleaning / sterilising everything. Everything you buy for kit brewing can be used going forward if you decide to take things further into extract / all-grain brewing. Personally I haven't ever really moved on from kit brewing due to the constraints or time / family that you mention.

Also in the unlikely event that you decide home brewing isn't for you then you haven't spent too much money on stuff (yet!).

The Brew2Bottle starter set linked looks to have all that is required to brew and bottle a 5 gallon / 23L kit so just add that Mangrove Jacks kit you like the sound of and you're good for your first brew.

You mention that you'll use your garage for brewing, just be aware that when fermenting beer likes to be kept at a nice constant temperature, ideally around 20°C, the garage may not offer that as it could get cold at night and hotter in the day. Too cold the yeast gets sleepy, slows down and can stop leading to stuck fermentation. Too hot and it can lead to funny flavours in the beer. So be aware of that. For years I just used to brew on the worktop in my kitchen which stayed at a fairly stable temp and produced decent enough beer, in recent years I built a brew fridge so that I could shift my brewing out to my garage.

I also think it's possibly a good idea to avoid pressure barrels initially. They can work well but are sometime difficult to get to seal up / hold pressure properly whereas bottles are more reliable in that respect. As you also mention if you want chilled beer that's not so easy with a barrel. Again I used pressure barrels myself for many years but recently went over to Cornelius kegs and built a kegerator (keg fridge), so much better but a big initial outlay so you need to be confident you're into brewing for the long term.

Finally with your kit, don't mess around trying to brew half of it, just do the whole 23L. Once you've opened the pouch the malt won't keep for ages, you don't really want half a sachet of yeast laying around for similar reasons, and the dry hops supplied will be the right amount for the whole kit and again will deteriorate once opened. Don't take the instruction literally, most of use work on a 2-2-2 basis, 2 weeks fermenting (warm), 2 weeks priming in the bottles (warm), 2 weeks conditioning in the bottles (cool), then sample So when the kit instructions say add the hops after 5 days and it will be done in 8 days ignore that, ferment for at least 9-10 days before adding the hops then bottle at day 14 provided a gravity reading shows it's finished / the airlock is bubbling very slowly or has stopped.

Good luck, be patient, and enjoy.

 

[Keith[]]

Hi Graz,
Many thanks for the lengthy and detailed response.
I’ll have to look at what you mean by brew fridge but think relocating is probably the better solution. I can take over the downstairs shower which goes unused.
I’ve seen references to the kegs but I think that life/and level of investment will need to wait a bit until I’ve established brewing as a long term hobby.
And that sounds sensible on just brewing the whole kit! Thanks again.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Keith, i started in June 2019 with a youngs starter kit and kits and had a lot of fun and enjoyment, i then bought a Klarstein fullhon 30L basic biab kettle and moved to all grain, in the last month i have bought 2 corny kegs a full size gas bottle and on monday i have a larder fridge coming, and i still do kits the best advice i can give is go with what you are confident with, kits today are very drinkable and you can pimp the basic one's like you get in wilko's and find something swmbo like's that's half the battle won , there are lots of very knowledgeable brewers on here who will give advice and it's very friendly and remember there are no stupid questions only the one's you don't ask, i wish you well on the journey to utopia

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I'm going to respectfully offer a different perspective to @Graz and suggest that you skip the kits and go straight for a simple small batch of all-grain. It's not hard, it needs minimal equipment, and you will be blown away by the results :-)

Have a look at the 'have a go at simple AG' thread here: Have a go at simple AG - I'll copy/paste the first bit here:

If you've made a few kits and/or extract brews, why not have a go at a simple AG brew, to see the difference it makes? A small batch of AG beer is not difficult and you will discover the difference and feel the joy and pride of making it from scratch. All you need for 5 litres is 1kg of Maris Otter, or other pale malt, a packet of hops, and a sachet of yeast. You just need a thermometer, a decent sized pan and something to strain the grain from the wort. A big sieve, or a piece of cloth in a colander. A bag that fills the pan and,drapes over the sides and holds the grains, made from muslin or voile, is ideal. You also need a hydrometer to check the gravity before and after fermentation.

Recipe:

• 1kg Maris Otter (about £1.50)
• One packet of hops (any you like - EKG, Citra, Amarillo, Galaxy, Fuggles, First gold etc) (About £3-4, but you will only use 15g of the 100g, so cost is around 50p)
• One packet of yeast, 3g dried yeast is enough. (50p ish)

Method:

1. Heat 3 litres of water to 75C in big pan.
2. Pour in the pale malt while stirring - get rid of lumps.
3. Check temp is 65-70C - adjust if necessary with cold or boiling water.
4. Wrap a thick towel round the pot and leave alone for one hour.
5. Strain into a bucket or other vessel through sieve, or colander lined with cloth.
6. Heat another 4 litres of water to 80C and add the grains back to it. Leave 10 mins, stir, and strain the liquid to your bucket. You should have about 6 litres, which will reduce when you boil it for an hour.
7. Dispose of grains, add wort to pan and bring to boil.
8. Add 5 grams of hops when boiling point is reached.
9. 55 Mins later add 5 to 10g of hops, depending on your hoppiness requirements, boil another 5 mins and switch off.
10. Cool the wort in sink, with lid on, add to sterilised FV/demijohn via sterilised sieve to catch hops, and top up the level to 5 litres if necessary. Pitch yeast at around 18 - 20C.

[Measure the amount of water added if you top up the FV, and add this amount to the sparge water next time you brew]

You should get 8 or 9 x 500ml bottles of lovely beer for about £2.50. It takes me about 3 hours start to finish, making 10 litre batches in this way (see below).

10 Litre option: You can just double all the quantities and make 10 Litres, which is what I do most of the time, it's a good amount of beer. About 18x500ml bottles, or 27x330ml bottles. You just need a 15ish litre pot.

If you've never made an all grain beer it's really worth giving this a go.​

 

[cushyno]

A few things. I'll say what looks good and what looks not so good, but some of this may be down to preference.

The Brew2Bottle complete kit looks ok:

• It has most of the bits you'll need. You get a bottling bucket which will help. I have brewed for several years without needing a bottling bucket, but some find them useful.
• 25L buckets. Are they actually 25L or will they hold more. I have two buckets, one is 26L to the brim and the other 30+L though it only has markings for 25L. The smaller one i can only use if I'm brewing short or if I know the yeast won't create a giant krausen, otherwise it climbs out of the airlock. 30L buckets are better in my opinion but take up more space especially with the airlock on top.
• 24 x 1L bottles mean you're can't ever decide on having just one pint, you'll need to have two (or share you bottle with someone else)! Good or bad depending on your view.
• Good that you've got two lids you can use interchangeably or as backup if needed.

What's missing?

• Get yourself a decent thermometer. the stick on ones are ok for a visual quick check of fermenting temperature but not adequate for accurate temperature checks. Glass thermometers are fine, i've had mine about 20 years and still uses it. Glass is not so good if you tend to be a little clumsy as they're easily broken. Digital thermometers are the best, easy to read and fairly accurate. Get one that is accurate to within 0.5degC with scale to tenth of a degree.
• More bottles! The Coopers brown PET 500ml bottles are good and last for years. Or if you're going to buy or collect glass ones, don't bother with a hand capper, get a bench capper for a few quid more they're easier to use and work on any bottle. I went for a cheap hand capper and shortly had to buy a bench capper eventually.
• Starsan / chemsan and a small spray bottle. VWP works well but needs lots of rinsing. You don't always need to be as agressive with your cleaning to use VWP, so rinsing bottles with water after drinking them and spraying with starsan before you store them and just before bottling takes a lot of the hard work out of bottling day.
• If you have space in your garage the two best things that you can buy for home brewing after those things above are a) a second hand fridge tall and deep enough to hold your FV and airlock, b) an Inkbird temperature controller (other makes available). The fridge and temperature control are the single biggest thing that helps me make good beer.

 

[Mayor of Simpleton]

Everyone will have their own ideas based on how they prefer to brew.
If it were me I would probably go with the second option if I was starting again. It looks a good starter set to me and would serve you well as you go. I started with something similar and I still use a lot of my original kit 6 years later, even after moving to all grain. I would invest in some no rinse sanitiser such as Starsan or Chemsan just to make life easier. Yes, you could go to 500 ml bottles + a benchcapper but I would suggest to get your first brew done then think about what worked for you and what you might do differently the next time. Dont over complicate as you learn your process. Whatever you choose you should be able to make a great beer.

 

[crowcrow]

Quick note on splitting - I split my first kit brew into three and brewed on three weekends messing with sugars and hops. - I was likely just lucky but I had no issues and learnt a bit on the way.

I preferred bottling to glass bottles than to plastic, but that is just me. I had a plastic barrel and never bothered with it as it was basic (no gas in) and that didn't meet my needs or the beers I liked (ipa/APA) and bottles meant I could have more variety. I have 2 corny kegs now and very very happy with them (I'd obvs like more!) but bottles were great for a time and I'm starting to think about using them again to allow me to brew more beer and also to give more away.

 

[damienair]

I started in December. I prepare the brew on the kitchen and when ready I put it upstairs in an airing cupboard for 2 weeks. I store all my bottles in the garage. I bought a very similar starter kit when I got going first. I think for kits having 2 fermentation buckets with a tap on each works perfect. I had one with a tap and one without, I bought an extra tap and installed it. Buy a bottle washer too and starsan. You can get bottles free of charge from a bottle bank and whilst waiting on the brew to be ready you can buy some craft beers in 500 ml glass bottles and put them back into use for your own brews once empty.
Like you I’ve a busy house and 2 kids so decided to stick with kits. The quality of the beer from kits is amazing, I’m very impressed so far. The Juicy Session IPA is gorgeous, so too is pink Grapefruit IPA, In fact everything I have done so far has been really good and very drinkable, as good as most commercially available craft beers. It is good fun and there is loads to learn. This forum is an amazing resource and so too is YouTube. I would say, get a starter kit and a beer kit and get going. Get more bottles from your local bottle bank, as many 500 ml bottles as you can, caps and a bottle capper. As you go along you will realise what extra bits and bobs you need. Good luck.

 

[Keith[]]

I'm going to respectfully offer a different perspective to @Graz and suggest that you skip the kits and go straight for a simple small batch of all-grain. It's not hard, it needs minimal equipment, and you will be blown away by the results :-)

Hi Engineer, thanks for the suggestion, I wouldn't have even considered AG to begin with thinking it was too much of a faff. Unfortunately I think the opportunity to have enough time to look after even this slimmed down 3 hour AG would be a bit much at present. Maybe one for the future however.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Hi Keith, doing AG doesn't mean you are stood there for 3 hours, once the mash is on you have 1 hour i stir it twice takes 2 minutes same for the boil just chucking in the hop additions, so you have 2 hours were you can do other stuff, once you nail your process you will be amazed how much time you have to do other stuff, i hoover clean the the cooker bathroom that kind of stuff it's all about planning your brew day hope this helps

 

[Keith[]]

A few things. I'll say what looks good and what looks not so good, but some of this may be down to preference.

The Brew2Bottle complete kit looks ok:

• It has most of the bits you'll need. You get a bottling bucket which will help. I have brewed for several years without needing a bottling bucket, but some find them useful.
• 25L buckets. Are they actually 25L or will they hold more. I have two buckets, one is 26L to the brim and the other 30+L though it only has markings for 25L. The smaller one i can only use if I'm brewing short or if I know the yeast won't create a giant krausen, otherwise it climbs out of the airlock. 30L buckets are better in my opinion but take up more space especially with the airlock on top.
• 24 x 1L bottles mean you're can't ever decide on having just one pint, you'll need to have two (or share you bottle with someone else)! Good or bad depending on your view.
• Good that you've got two lids you can use interchangeably or as backup if needed.

What's missing?

• Get yourself a decent thermometer. the stick on ones are ok for a visual quick check of fermenting temperature but not adequate for accurate temperature checks. Glass thermometers are fine, i've had mine about 20 years and still uses it. Glass is not so good if you tend to be a little clumsy as they're easily broken. Digital thermometers are the best, easy to read and fairly accurate. Get one that is accurate to within 0.5degC with scale to tenth of a degree.
• More bottles! The Coopers brown PET 500ml bottles are good and last for years. Or if you're going to buy or collect glass ones, don't bother with a hand capper, get a bench capper for a few quid more they're easier to use and work on any bottle. I went for a cheap hand capper and shortly had to buy a bench capper eventually.
• Starsan / chemsan and a small spray bottle. VWP works well but needs lots of rinsing. You don't always need to be as agressive with your cleaning to use VWP, so rinsing bottles with water after drinking them and spraying with starsan before you store them and just before bottling takes a lot of the hard work out of bottling day.
• If you have space in your garage the two best things that you can buy for home brewing after those things above are a) a second hand fridge tall and deep enough to hold your FV and airlock, b) an Inkbird temperature controller (other makes available). The fridge and temperature control are the single biggest thing that helps me make good beer.

Hi Cushyno.
Thanks for the note.
Probably a silly question but the bottling bucket - is that the one with or without the tap?
I think it is a 25l bucket not a 30l bucket with 25l markings I see the logic in preferring a larger vessel but wonder how often this may actually be an issue?
Other tips/recomendations gratefully recieved. we could certainly squeeze a spare fridge in but i hink thats one for the future.

 

[Keith[]]

Hi Keith, doing AG doesn't mean you are stood there for 3 hours, once the mash is on you have 1 hour i stir it twice takes 2 minutes same for the boil just chucking in the hop additions, so you have 2 hours were you can do other stuff, once you nail your process you will be amazed how much time you have to do other stuff, i hoover clean the the cooker bathroom that kind of stuff it's all about planning your brew day hope this helps

Thanks Rodcx500z, I suppose it seems a bit more involved as a starting point and whilst it may not be a case of watching it for 3 hours, getting back to it at the right time could pose a challenge. I'll maybe have a look at some Youtube clips for reference.

 

[Redwulf]

Hi Cushyno.
Thanks for the note.
Probably a silly question but the bottling bucket - is that the one with or without the tap?
I think it is a 25l bucket not a 30l bucket with 25l markings I see the logic in preferring a larger vessel but wonder how often this may actually be an issue?
Other tips/recomendations gratefully recieved. we could certainly squeeze a spare fridge in but i hink thats one for the future.

I can think of two MJ kits off the top of my head where another 5L of head space will be beneficial due to the yeast getting a bit excitable.

 

[cushyno]

Hi Cushyno.
Thanks for the note.
Probably a silly question but the bottling bucket - is that the one with or without the tap?
I think it is a 25l bucket not a 30l bucket with 25l markings I see the logic in preferring a larger vessel but wonder how often this may actually be an issue?
Other tips/recomendations gratefully recieved. we could certainly squeeze a spare fridge in but i hink thats one for the future.

Bottling bucket is the one with the tap.

Most of us tend to ferment in buckets without taps. I'm not a huge stickler for cleaning and sanitising everything, but a tap is another vector for infection of a brew while it's at is most vulnerable, i.e. when it's been first dropped into the fermenter. If you use the tapped bucket as a fermenter make sure the tap and threads are squeaky clean.

 

[Keith[]]

I can think of two MJ kits off the top of my head where another 5L of head space will be beneficial due to the yeast getting a bit excitable.

Thanks Redwulf. Maybe I’ll look at building a similar kit but with a larger FV

 

[Keith[]]

Bottling bucket is the one with the tap.

Most of us tend to ferment in buckets without taps. I'm not a huge stickler for cleaning and sanitising everything, but a tap is another vector for infection of a brew while it's at is most vulnerable, i.e. when it's been first dropped into the fermenter. If you use the tapped bucket as a fermenter make sure the tap and threads are squeaky clean.

Yep sound. Thanks cushyno.
So Siphon from FV to bottle bucket with the tap and bottle wand. I assume you lose some of the sediment in the siphoning process?

 

[cushyno]

That's the idea. Leave sediment behind using the siphon, rack beer on top of your priming sugar in the bottling bucket, gently stir to dissolve the sugar equally throughout the beer. Bottle from the bottling bucket tap (with bottling wand).

 

[damienair]

Yep sound. Thanks cushyno.
So Siphon from FV to bottle bucket with the tap and bottle wand. I assume you lose some of the sediment in the siphoning process?

I had a FV with a tap and one without a tap. Both are 30 liter buckets. The one without the tap I used as my Fermentation vessel and bottled from the Bottling bucket with the tap, using a magic siphon to transfer the brew over leaving the sediment behind. But siphoning is a pain in the neck. Dry hops block the flow mid transfer, or flow dies off mid transfer. Also awkward to do single handed without help. Also even when being careful you can disturb the sediment towards the end of transfer.
So I installed a tap on my other FV. The benefit is that you can easily take samples, and when transferring the beer to the bottling bucket all you have to do is sanitise the bucket, bottling wand and tube. Connect the tube to the tap, put the other end into the bottling bucket and pour in the priming sugar solution into the bottling bucket. Then just simply open the tap, the beer transfers across easily and towards the end carefully tip over the bucket and stop just before any sediment goes across. I lose very little beer now and consistently get 40 pints from a 23 liter brew. And you can easily do it on your own. The taps also have a sediment trap. I also use a hop sock now, or connect a muslin cloth to the tap on the inside of the bottling bucket to prevent the hops blocking up the bottling wand.
when cleaning the equipment after a brew I remove the taps from both buckets and leave them and the buckets spotless.
But that is just how I do it. I hate siphoning. Everyone has their own methods and after you do a few brews you’ll learn what works for you and with each brew you will learn something new and streamline your process for the next brew.

 

[Knuckles]

Hi damienair, how do you stop sediment or hops from clogging the tap on your FV? When I syphon from the fv I put a muslin bag over the tube but you wont be able to do that? Agreed though...syphoning is a pain and not easy on your own.