Immersion, Plate or Counter Flow?

[Hudson1984]

ok, slightly similar to my previous chiller question

but I wondered if you all could point me in the best direction.

I'm going for an All in one kit, probably a 70l brewster beacon.

Now i've seen immersion coolers, seen plate heat exchangers, and also counter/contra flow kits.

As you'll perhaps know, i've not done an AG brew before but trying to assemble the correct gear.

Any hints in what cooler to pair with my chosen kit?

 

[Richie_asg1]

I've just started AG brewing and am finding an immersion chiller adequate. I like that it is compact, won't clog, easy to clean and simple for me to use.

Maybe it is something you have to try to figure out what is best for you?
If I ever move to larger batches or a more fixed set-up I would go counterflow using long straight pipes - easier to clean.

 

[Drunkula]

I wanted someone to chip in first. I think it was on the Brewstrong podcast they were talking about it and settled on immersion having the edge because of ease of use and least post care. You've got to stir the wort or shake the coil to make it more effective, though.

 

[trueblue]

I used an immersion chiller for years. at least 20+, but have had a counter flow for the last year and there is no comparison. The immersion does the job the counter flow does it so much quicker.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I wanted someone to chip in first. I think it was on the Brewstrong podcast they were talking about it and settled on immersion having the edge because of ease of use and least post care. You've got to stir the wort or shake the coil to make it more effective, though.

Agreed. I recently moved to a Brewzilla from Peco and BIAB and have taken a lot of the same (working) processes with me. I always put the lid on the Peco when chilling with the immersion chiller and wiggled it about constantly whilst chilling. Now doing exactly the same with the BZ.

 

[phillc]

I recently started using a plate chiller and wrote about it here.

I feel like it does a solid job cooling the wort quickly, but does use a lot of water. I've not researched how this compares to, for example, immersion chillers.

I went this route as I didn't want to stick something in my wort after the boil.

In terms of cleaning, I don't find it onerous or problematic. I leave the chiller connected to the Brauheld, use the built-in pump, to push through Oxi cleaning water and finally clean hot water. Not sure how it will perform long term, but so far so good.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've been looking into this recently as my immersion chiller quickly gets the wort down to the mid to high 30 degrees pretty quickly, but seems to take an age to get it down to the high or mid 20's and seems to stall there. I have a second home made immersion chiller which I'm planning to use on my next brew day which I'll put in line before the chiller in the wort, and will be in a bucket of water, so when the wort hits the mid 30's where the cooling rate seems to stall to a crawl, I'll chuck a bag or two if ice in the bucket to chill the water before it gets into the main chiller.

Maybe a plate or CFC might work better, but more expense right now so a second home made emersion chiller in a bucket of iced water might be a cheap option for now if it works.

 

[Hudson1984]

I really like the idea of a plate chiller. It'll fit exactly into my planned work area.

Just seems to be alot of negativity around them. That being said, I don't want to spend grainfather money for a counter flow and at this stage would rather not be making my own anything, I want to get used to the process before I start tinkering.

I'm intending to mount my boiler higher than my sink, probably change the barb connection for stainless pipework, have 1 valve over the sink (for normal use hotwater) and one valve over the all in one (for sparge) that way I can make better use of it, I've yet to plumb in the water into the garage so I intend to have a valved tap off the mains into the top of where I position it and just open the valve to fill it as required.

that's the plan anyway! but yes a plate suits me and i'd use it how you have i.e. clean as soon as i'm done by filling the All in one with cleaner and pump it through.

 

[kelper]

Having cleaned a lot of industrial plate coolers, which can be dismantled, I would not want to use a welded plate cooler. The plates get a varnish on and lose efficiency. They need scrubbing to get really clean. We can use CIP (clean in place) equipment for intermediate cleaning but they still benefit from regular dismantling. To improve an immersion chiller you should use small bore tubing and lots of it. for best heat transfer, the flow needs to be turbulent. A slowish flow through a larger bore can result in laminar flow.

One poster said above (post #6) that he didn't want to put something into his wort after the boil. Most people put the immersion chiller into the boiling wort for the last few minutes and this sterilises the chiller. (no cooling water flowing)

And, with an immersion chiller, you can see if it's clean.

For the same reasons, I would not use a counterflow coil.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I do 21 litre batches. I have used both an immersion chiller and a plate chiller, and for this size batch the immersion is way easier. Drop it in the wort with 5 minutes left on the boil, and hose it down after.

Wort chills to 20c in 15 minutes, but you need to jiggle the immersion chiller while you’re doing it to go that fast.

However, I think that once you’re at 50+ litres a counter flow or plate chiller makes much more sense.

You need a pump to properly clean and sanitise them, which can be a bit of a faff unless you have a dedicated brew space you can leave it all running in.

Counter flow chillers have fewer nooks and crannies internally for bits of hop or break to get stuck in, but for efficiency and price the plate chillers are excellent, you just need to be careful using them.

 

[kelper]

If you are buying an immersion chiller to use in an all-in-one, make sure it can be lowered into the boiler fully. I bought a 50L unit and immersion chiller from the same supplier but the coil only reaches half-way down. I have to use the coil in a fermentation vessel after drawing off the wort.

 

[Hudson1984]

thanks good advice.

I do have a dedicated space to work, I'm also putting a stainless sink in the same area so I could easily leave it to flow through for as long as neccessary. My aim would really be to fill the All in one back up with cleaner, then pump it through the plate chiller before sanitising.

personally I really don't want an immersion chiller - just want to be sure that a plate chiller isn't a disaster as long as I use it correctly.

 

[kelper]

Don't scrimp and end up with an undersized plate cooler.

 

[Wynne]

I have all 3. The immersion and counterflow are both made from 50 feet of 10mm copper tube, the plate chiller is 304 stainless steel and has 36 plates. The counterflow and the plate chiller will each cool wort to fermentation temperature in a single pass. The plate chiller is more compact which is why I prefer it. Both counterflow and plate chiller need a rigorous cleaning and sanitation regime - cold flush, hot cleaner, cold rinse then sanitise with no-rinse sanitiser before use.

 

[kelper]

I have all 3. The immersion and counterflow are both made from 50 feet of 10mm copper tube, the plate chiller is 304 stainless steel and has 36 plates. The counterflow and the plate chiller will each cool wort to fermentation temperature in a single pass. The plate chiller is more compact which is why I prefer it. Both counterflow and plate chiller need a rigorous cleaning and sanitation regime - cold flush, hot cleaner, cold rinse then sanitise with no-rinse sanitiser before use.

point of order! You can't make a counterflow with one size of tubing? I'll get my coat....

 

[hoppyscotty]

Kelper, that's interesting insight, thanks. I've thought about mods I could do to my emersion chiller to induce turbulence into the flow, thinking along the lines of a wire with blobs of solder or even small knots if the wire is thin and flexible enough, threaded through the coil and secured at either end, maybe soldered.

Also toyed with the idea of running the wort through the immersion chiller and placing it in a bucket of iced water.

 

[Horners]

I have an immersion chiller and since I bought a GF, a counterflow. For me chilling with the coil was one of the real PITA bits of brewday. On all but the hottest of days the CFC will get it down to pitching temperature in the time it takes to pump the wort into the FV and doesn't even need supervising.

That said if the pump blocks you have a real problem on your hands. Also I am not sure what happens to the cold break. With my immersion I assume this drops out and then most of it stays in the copper post whirlpool?

 

[Hudson1984]

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/plate-chiller-125kw-complete-kit/
I was thinking of this.

 

[kelper]

I calculated that you would need a 13kW cooler to cool 50 litres from 100C to 25C in 20 minutes. But a cooler won't transfer heat at its rated capacity once the wort cools. So ten times that seems reasonable. But, if you can afford it, go for a higher kW rating.

4.2kJ/kg/K x 50kg x (100-25)K ÷ 60s x 20 = 13kW

 

[Hudson1984]

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/plate-chiller-165kw-complete-kit/
they do a larger kit.

I'm not sure i'd go to 50l in reality. Just be a pain to store. at 40l batches I can do two cornies and a few bottles. That's the sweet spot for me I think.