Invert sugar in Strong Bitter

[scrap iron]

I am looking to experiment with my Strong Bitter[ ESB ] recipe and am thinking of replacing most crystal malt with invert. I recently tried my hand at making it and ended up with the medium level of invert #1. Probably around 13 SRM or 25 EBC if I translate it right. My normal recipe was with a pound of 40-60° L British crystal for a 1.056-1.060 SG beer. I was thinking 1 pound of invert and maybe 2-3 oz of Brit crystal 77°L [ 150 EBC ] . The invert was made with Zulka sugar from Mexico, made by squeezing and evaporating the juice from the raw sugar cane. To this I added 3 oz of Turbinado sugar , a little darker sugar, to make 1 kg total. I thought I would ask on this side of the pond. I also can get different raw sugars from Mexican food stores like panela [ piloncillo], demerara, and muscovado which have more molasses left in. I plan on using a darker version in a Porter later on. What are your thoughts?
cheers, prost and sláinte.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

I use invert 3 in my bitters, 6% invert and 3% crystal 240 ebc. I am also gonna try a version where I completely replace crystal with 10% dark invert.
The darker inverts leave quite a bit off flavour so use crystal with caution if you do both in a beer where you only want a subtle caramel/toffee flavour.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

A couple of years ago I did an ESB type beer and added treacle (tate & lyle) I know it's not invert but it's not far off. It was really good and one I was only thinking the other day that I should brew again.

 

[scrap iron]

I use invert 3 in my bitters, 6% invert and 3% crystal 240 ebc. I am also gonna try a version where I completely replace crystal with 10% dark invert.
The darker inverts leave quite a bit off flavour so use crystal with caution if you do both in a beer where you only want a subtle caramel/toffee flavour.

Thanks for the reply Erik. It looks like you use quite a bit darker invert than I have and a larger percentage of dark crystal. What color do estimate your bitter comes out to?
This invert was boiled a little higher temp, it got up to 120° C at the last. I boiled it for 30 mins starting at 115° C.
So it is probably closer to 39 EBC or 20 SRM. My recipe has 8% at this color with 1 pound and 2oz of the240 EBC crystal. Do you think I should use more of my invert or crystal or maybe both? I am just winging it on the flavor and color both. I hope I'm getting the color conversion right From SRM to EBC.

 

[scrap iron]

A couple of years ago I did an ESB type beer and added treacle (tate & lyle) I know it's not invert but it's not far off. It was really good and one I was only thinking the other day that I should brew again.

Yes, treacle or molasses in the US. That sounds good and also in a Porter maybe. Thanks Pilgram.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

To this I added 3 oz of Turbinado sugar , a little darker sugar, to make 1 kg total. I thought I would ask on this side of the pond. I also can get different raw sugars from Mexican food stores like panela [ piloncillo], demerara, and muscovado which have more molasses left in. I plan on using a darker version in a Porter later on. What are your thoughts?

To be honest, given that the sugars available to you don't really correspond to what we can get here, you're probably better off searching through US-based threads such as English Ales - What's your favorite recipe? for words like turbinado and piloncilo, there's been some fairly detailed discussions over on HBT about which US sugars to use.

 

[scrap iron]

Thanks Northern Brewer I'll check it out.

 

[marshbrewer]

Yes, treacle or molasses in the US. That sounds good and also in a Porter maybe. Thanks Pilgram.

What we call treacle over here, @scrap iron isn't molasses, it's black treacle- its a blend of golden syrup (partially inverted cane sugar) and cane molasses. Its probably closer to Brewers invert #4 rather than blackstrap, or other straight molasses,

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

Thanks for the reply Erik. It looks like you use quite a bit darker invert than I have and a larger percentage of dark crystal. What color do estimate your bitter comes out to?
This invert was boiled a little higher temp, it got up to 120° C at the last. I boiled it for 30 mins starting at 115° C.
So it is probably closer to 39 EBC or 20 SRM. My recipe has 8% at this color with 1 pound and 2oz of the240 EBC crystal. Do you think I should use more of my invert or crystal or maybe both? I am just winging it on the flavor and color both. I hope I'm getting the color conversion right From SRM to EBC.

I prefer both darker crystal and invert in my Bitters, I feel the darker invert leaves more flavour and the darker crystal isn't as sweet as say 150ebc crystal.
I also use a dash of Amber in my best bitter and brown in my strong (ESB). The best is a (approx) a bit under 30ebc and the strong a wee bit darker.
You could try doing the invert using the oven method, boil it gently up to about 115-120 c then place it in the oven preheated 120c oven for as long as needed for the variety you wish to make.

 

[foxbat]

It's really hard to buy invert in the UK as a home brewer unless you want 25kg of the stuff. Embarrassing really since it's our beers that are the most well known for using it.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

It's not that hard to do it yourself at home luckily.

 

[foxbat]

It's not that hard to do it yourself at home luckily.

You're right there are a lot of ghetto recipes out there. I tried it once and made some nice bonfire toffee!

 

[scrap iron]

Thanks all for the info. @ Erik the Anglophile I upped the invert amount and doubled the crystal but all I have is 150ebc. I do have some Special B but am saving it for a Baltic porter. I'm not sure the B would be appropriate in a bitter. My LHBS has Simpsons DRC at115srm [226ebc] and Crisp extra dark at 120srm [236ebc]. That's a good idea about the oven method, think I'll try that.
I guess we are lucky in the US having access to all the sugars from south America and the Caribbean. I have a few Mexican groceries around for the different raw sugars.
@foxbat, You should give it a try again and use some kind of brown cane sugar or sugar in the raw. Maybe try the oven method.
cheers all.

 

[Erik The Anglophile]

You're right there are a lot of ghetto recipes out there. I tried it once and made some nice bonfire toffee!

The trick is to simmer gently, let it take it's sweet time to reach caramellisation temperature, then chuck it in the oven to hold it there.