Is it possible to make acid malt?

[jceg316]

I know acid malt is fermented malt which contains lactobacillus which gives it its acidity. I have heard some breweries make their own acid malt. I was wondering if it's possible for home brewers to make acid malt by fermenting pale malt somehow? Or does the fermentation happen during the malting process at some point?

 

[strange-steve]

It's not necessarily fermented, some of it is just pale malt sprayed with lactic acid. Is there any particular reason why you want to make it?

 

[The Baron]

Yes i read in one of the books that sometimes it is just malt sprayed with lactic acid as Steve said

 

[jceg316]

It's not necessarily fermented, some of it is just pale malt sprayed with lactic acid. Is there any particular reason why you want to make it?

Partly for fun. I'm quite into pickles and all sorts of fermentations and knowing how lacto fermenting brings out a range of characteristics from vegetables, was wondering if it could be done with grain. Also I tend to get my orders from GEB who don't sell acid malt. Not the end of the world to buy it from another shop tbh.

It would be used to make goses and other sour beers with a kettle mash. I'm wondering what a good source of lactobacillus is other than acid malt as well. I don't really want to use yoghurt if possible as half my friends are vegan. I'm wondering if I could pour some of my pickle juice into the kettle?

 

[Hanglow]

Yes, although not malt but liquid. and if you brew enough it's a practical thing to do. Google sauergut.

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/ingredients/a-sauergut-reactor/

 

[An Ankoù]

You could just use a bit of lactic acid. The Bavarian beer purity laws don't permit any kind of additive though, so they have to subject the malt to conditions where lactic acid can form naturally.

Which doesn't answer your question. They make it therefore it can be made. Googling acidulated malt might be a good starting point.

 

[strange-steve]

I'm wondering what a good source of lactobacillus is other than acid malt as well

For kettle sours I've twice successfully used Swanson L. Plantarum capsules:
https://www.bodyandfit.com/en-gb/Pr...Krb_TP1ySTvm98KulVMYm1s1xI642eXIaAt7YEALw_wcB

 

[jceg316]

Thanks for your input. I read somewhere (and now I can't find the link!) that spraying malt with lactic acid makes an inferior acid malt. I'm wondering if introducing lacto directly to wort, as opposed to just acid, adds extra character? I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case.

I don't think I brew enough to warrant building a fridge dedicated to lactobacillus creation.

 

[jceg316]

For kettle sours I've twice successfully used Swanson L. Plantarum capsules:
https://www.bodyandfit.com/en-gb/Products/Health-&-Wellbeing/Dietary-Recommendations/Probiotics/Probiotics-L-Plantarum/p/10426?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtOjyBRC0ARIsAIpJyGO7-Th5JCxcsCq7QCFKhdcKrb_TP1ySTvm98KulVMYm1s1xI642eXIaAt7YEALw_wcB

Thanks for sharing. How many capsules have you put in the wort? How sour do you like your sours? I like goses which are on the subtle end, but I also like those powerful sours where you can feel your stomach lining shred off.

 

[strange-steve]

I'm wondering if introducing lacto directly to wort, as opposed to just acid, adds extra character? I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case.

Absolutely, this is a snippit from Brewing Classic Styles:

How many capsules have you put in the wort? How sour do you like your sours?

I used 8 capsules in about 25L of wort and left it for a couple of days. I like them pretty sharp, but with this method you can stop the souring whenever it reaches your preferred sourness.

 

[The Baron]

I didn't realise that Steve are you saying you can make a pseudo sour beer by just using acid malt and or Lactic acid as I love sours but have always been put off by infecting if that is the word my brewery

 

[strange-steve]

I didn't realise that Steve are you saying you can make a pseudo sour beer by just using acid malt and or Lactic acid as I love sours but have always been put off by infecting if that is the word my brewery

Yes you can, but as the text above says it may not have the same flavour complexity. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if many of the supermarket sour beers today are made that way.

If you're worried about cross-contamination then kettle souring might be worth looking into. As the name suggests the souring is done in the boil kettle and the wort is pasteurised before going into the FV.

Fwiw if your cleaning/sanitising regime is good then contamination shouldn't really be an issue anyway. I don't use separate equipment for my sour or brett beers and never had an issue.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks Steve any idea how much lactic to add to a standard brew to get a reasonable sour taste cos I might give that a go

 

[strange-steve]

Thanks Steve any idea how much lactic to add to a standard brew to get a reasonable sour taste cos I might give that a go

I don't really know mate, I've never tried it but it should be easy to do. Just add the lactic acid gradually until it reaches about pH 3.5 which is typical for a sour beer, or until it tastes right to you.

 

[The Baron]

Thanks Steve I think I will give that a go. I added 200g of acid malt and 4ml of Lactic to bring down my PH from 5.9 but over shot to 5.0 PH so that should give me a idea of what to base it on

 

[strange-steve]

I would suggest that if you're using acid malt as the primary souring method then most of it should be added after the saccharification rest so that you're not driving the mash pH too low. Braukaiser says that acid malt reduces pH by about 0.1 per 1% of the grain bill, but that is for a typical mash pH range and may not be accurate outside of that.

 

[The Baron]

Will do Steve

 

[jceg316]

I recently read this article https://byo.com/article/overnight-acidification/ which is really useful. I think a key takeaway is if you are using something like acid malt, or a source which contains different bacteria on it, it will help to purge a lot of oxygen. Using only lactobacillus the O2 isn't as detrimental. I've made a couple of kettle sours before and they've gone bad because some other bacteria has also left its mark.

 

[strange-steve]

I've made a couple of kettle sours before and they've gone bad because some other bacteria has also left its mark.

Yep there's a few things you can do to mitigate that. Purging with CO2, covering the top of the mash with cling film, pre-acidifying the wort to pH 4.5 with lactic acid will all help avoid unwanted bacteria. For info on all things sour or wild you won't do better than milk the funk.

 

[F00b4r]

Steve, Swanson have stopped making those capsules so you might want to grab some whilst there are still some stockists.