Is the mash out really necessary ?

Discussion in 'Grain, Hops, Yeast & Water' started by bobukbrewer, Jul 15, 2019.

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  1. Jul 15, 2019 #1

    bobukbrewer

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    I am brewing this morning and mash stated at 71 deg C and an hour later was at 67.5 - I have a really efficient BIAB bag and ran out really clear liquid at a rate of one gallon every 45 seconds - straight into my second burco boiler at full power so as I was adding in increments, I reached 75 deg C even quicker than I could have in the mash tun. I will now stand and skim off the hot break sludge before adding my summit hops, and 45 minutes later my cascade hops...I like brew days !!!!
     
  2. Jul 15, 2019 #2

    strange-steve

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    Nope, not necessary at all.
     
  3. Jul 15, 2019 #3

    peebee

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    If you are doing BIAB it would be more trouble than its worth. And would probably do zilch given how long (hours?) it would take to heat through a bag of grain - you'd really need some recirculation system to see it heat through. Hopefully with that comment I'm just making the futility of BIAB mashout more obvious? I'd say sparging was a waste of time for BIAB too (BIAB wasn't conceived as a sparged mash process) but that is more debatable.

    What does mashout do anyway? The hot wash is supposed to flush out more converted sugars. Phah! It supposed to arrest mashing to "preserve" the proportions of simple and complex sugars. Phah! In an industrial setting perhaps you can tie down that property, but in a home setting? Phah, phah, phah! Anyway, I actually mash some beers at 75C - true it is mainly alpha-amylase I'm promoting and beta-amylase will denature fairly quickly at that temperature but will be active for a fair while.

    Having said that I do mashout, but have recirculating systems. In the case of the Grainfather (which I use in BIAB style - "full-boil-volume-mash") it's just an automated step so I don't do anything.
     
  4. Jul 15, 2019 #4

    An Ankoù

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    I've never bothered. I understand it's to denature the enzymes to prevent any further conversion of dextrins at a certain point in the mash, thus leaving more "body" in the beer. But how you actually calculate and then measure that point without an operational lab is quite beyond me. Adjusting the mash temperature will achieve the same result unless I've missed something along the way.
     
  5. Jul 15, 2019 #5

    jceg316

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    I agree with everyone else here in that it's not necessary. I used to brew without one for a while and still made great beer. Because I moved to a grainfather, as peebee says, it's an automated step so I do it.
     
  6. Jul 15, 2019 #6

    Sadfield

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    Never bother myself. I guess the only real advantage on a homebrew scale, is the reduction of wort viscosity at the elevated temperature, adding run off. Perhaps, getting to the boil sooner, dependent on where the thermal efficiencies and losses are on a particular system.
     
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  7. Jul 15, 2019 #7

    peebee

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    I don't doubt that. I do use hot sparge water (when not doing "no sparge") but don't care if it's not reached exactly 75C (okay, habits die hard, I still care a bit but am trying to get out of 'em). The cold sparge idea exists, but turns me … well, cold? Recently it was being suggested that washing your hands in soap and cold water is just as effective as washing in hot? I think I'll just categorise the cold washing bunch as "weirdos".

    Apologies if I get all heated about the subject (phah!), but I've be brewing some 45 years-ish and much of that time slavishly following the mumbo-jumbo written on what you "have to do". It's only been recent years with the (worldwide) resurgence of home-brewing that many of the dafter methods have been debunked. But as time passes I notice people reinventing daft ideas and putting them about for new starters as things you "have to do".

    Humans are just scary. I'm glad I come from the planet Nosht.
     
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  8. Jul 15, 2019 #8

    Drunkula

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    https://www.beer-simple.com/brewing/2017/11/20/mashing-out-is-dumb-but-do-it-anyway

    That'a bit of fun. After coming across cold sparging because of just forgetting to heat the water and going ahead anyway and it not making an efficiency difference I don't give a damn about it any more if I've got hot water I'll use it, if I don't I don't. I'm under sparging because I don't have a pot big enough for a full boil and still getting almost 80% efficiency so bully for me.

    I'd mash out if I was doing one of those no-boil beers, something where the enzymes could just chew it down to it something overly fermentable.
     
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  9. Jul 15, 2019 #9

    bobukbrewer

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    I do recirculate - run off a gallon and pour it back in the top - I could - if I wanted - get the 9 lb of grains from 70 to 75 in less than 10 minutes - update - yeast has been pitched, clearing up has been done.........
     
  10. Jul 16, 2019 #10

    peebee

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    Ah bums. So the viscosity stuff don't hold water either. Well I've changed me ways enough now so I'm sticking with "washing in cold water is for weirdos". Flippin' water got to be heated up for the boil anyhow, so it ain't costing me more. It (mashout) does sort of put a finishing touch to mashing prior to the boiling bit: So it's a ritual, and we all know how important rituals are (like the one that stops the sky falling on our heads, etc.). Me mum would have told me to wash in hot water, that's good enough for me, so I'll "do it anyway".
     
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  11. Jul 16, 2019 #11

    Sadfield

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    But that article is solely focused on viscosity with regards to sugar extraction and efficiency, and not whether lautering ease, or speed, is affected. There's more to wort than sugar. How does temperature influence beta-glucans?
     

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