January Forum Comp - American Pale Ales

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Ghillie

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Say it was someone else judging and they were more generous with their point scoring it still amounts to the same result, just with higher points.

I actually think all the points about my beer were very much in line with what I thought about it too, and therefore that the judging was very fair. I'm actually impressed that the faults I knew about from brewing were picked up just from tasting with no other info.
Thank you very much, and thanks for entering!
 

dan125

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I'd venture a guess that, in general, the scoring was a little on the harsh side by comparison with your average BJCP competition.
As regards to being harsh, no - we weren’t. There just wasn’t any outstanding, excellent or very good beers
I think its all a matter of interpretation. I always value another brewer's feedback and agree that the score is irrelevant as long as the beers were all scored against the same criteria.
My only concern is that entrants given a low score may be put off entering more forum comps, and by way of comparison my APA scored 35/50 at the UK national comp the previous weekend, and suprisngly (according to the BJCP at least) a 'very good' beer can have 'minor flaws' if 'generally within style parameters'.
As far as I know none of us are BJCP judges, but perhaps erring on the side of generosity is the way to go in the forum comps?

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Markk

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Might possibly be the lowest scoring beer.

Aroma 3/12 No hop aroma, no malt aroma. Smelled like love hearts/sweet sugary kind? Sickly.
Appearance 2/3 Clarity sound but head fell away quickly.
Flavour 3/20 Far too sweet, sickly so. What was the FG? Stalled fermentation or addition of lactose? Un-fermentables? Low OG potentially? Unsure until recipe known.
Mouthfeel 2/5 Light mouthfeel with a cloying finish.
Overall Impression 3/10 Far too sweet. Didn't reach FG or too much unfermentable additions? Kit beer possibly with unnecessary tinkering.
Total 13/50

However, everything that wasn't liked, is what I enjoy. A Milkshake APA attempt. So I guess a lot of it can be personal preference, but I'm chuffed with it and drinking a couple this evening in celebration.
Hmmm, sorry. @Grizzly Notations. I just pipped you to that accolade. My Mosaic Pale Ale scored 12/50 :tongue:
 

Ghillie

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Most likely as the beers have been sat around for a month waiting to be opened.
That’s the only opportunity when judging could be done. Work gets in the way of things, as you could appreciate I’m sure?

And beers were only sat around for as long as the entrants wished. Made it common knowledge in the middle of Jan that judging wouldn’t be happening until at least 4 weeks later.
 
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foxy

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The most important thing that a judge has to do is give, aside from encouragement and feed back is where a beer could be improved. Unless a beer is absolute crap then the above should be adhered to.
Download score sheets and fill them out as in a comp, where there were points lost and points gained.
This gives the brewer an insight for improvement. I would encourage all home brewers to enter comps, the advice received is not demeaning but an insight of where improvements can be made.
Post 139 by Ghillie that does happen, I have sat as an assistant to a judge and the beers coming through have been crap, I must say I have never seen a score of 27 coming into the winners arena but thanks should be given for the time invested by the judges with sympathy to their taste buds.
 

Ghillie

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The most important thing that a judge has to do is give, aside from encouragement and feed back is where a beer could be improved. Unless a beer is absolute crap then the above should be adhered to.
Download score sheets and fill them out as in a comp, where there were points lost and points gained.
This gives the brewer an insight for improvement. I would encourage all home brewers to enter comps, the advice received is not demeaning but an insight of where improvements can be made.
Post 139 by Ghillie that does happen, I have sat as an assistant to a judge and the beers coming through have been crap, I must say I have never seen a score of 27 coming into the winners arena but thanks should be given for the time invested by the judges with sympathy to their taste buds.
Thanks @foxy, appreciate it.

Spent a good few hours typing up all the scores and feedback. Not to mention taking a day off work to judge the competition (was the only day/chance that worked in with the both of us).

All beers which were flawed, we gave our opinions on what it may be and what should be reviewed/refined in order to eradicate it. Beers which simply lacked flavour and/or aroma. Were noted as just that.

If the beers were fantastic, they would have been scored as so. Turns out that the beers were average to good, so were scored accordingly. You don’t raise the scores if the average performance is lacking. Podium places were awarded for the best beers and that’s it.

As for anyone who is bitter about their score and lack of placing (seems those who weren’t placed are the only ones moaning). Submit a better beer to get a podium place is all I can say...

To enter a competition for feedback and honest peer review, discredit the feedback and or opinion of those judging is just daft. I love beer and can tell the difference between good beer and bad beer, it’s rather simple. I would also say that my performances in the few forum comps I’ve entered proves my ability and understanding of both brewing and beer enough to warrant an opinion on the matter.

So for those who have a gripe about their low scoring beers, I’m sorry. But if I knew your skin was so thin I would have had your Mum give the feedback rather than a peer brewer. If it makes anyone feel better, everyone can add on an arbitrary 10 points to their overall scores but - oh yeah - it doesn’t actually change anything. The better beers were placed, simple. All beers were scored with the same fairness, simple. No one was biased or in favour of any entrant, simple.

Thanks again to all those who entered.
 

samale

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This is starting to turn sour. I have no problem with the score I asked some questions around the flaws In my beer so I could learn from it. As I said even before I posted that it was far from a winner but it being a first attempt at a raw ale I wanted some feed back. Looking back at the tread even the lowest scores never really complained. It should be light hearted competition with a chance for people to get beer reviewed and ask questions to help improve their technique.
 

Chippy_Tea

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As for anyone who is bitter about their score and lack of placing (seems those who weren’t placed are the only ones moaning). Submit a better beer to get a podium place is all I can say...

I have edited my earlier post to say -

This thread isn't going to encourage new members to join in and will probably put off some who have taken part in the past, just saying!

I agree with Samales comment above "This is starting to turn sour" i thought these competitions were supposed to be a bit of fun.

.
 
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Grizzly Notations

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Agreed, this seems to have taken a 'turn'.

I didn't mind my score nor did I complain. I just couldn't ask anything about it as the descriptions of the senses made for what I like in a beer.
 

Ghillie

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I have edited my earlier post to say -

This thread isn't going to encourage new members to join in and will probably put off some who have taken part in the past, just saying!

I agree with Samales comment above "This is starting to turn sour" i thought these competitions were supposed to be a bit of fun.

We’ll leave it at that then Chippy. Said all I needed to say.
 

RichardM

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I'd just like to say that I have no problem with the score my beer got or the feedback comments. I'm very grateful to @Ghillie for taking the time and trouble to do this for us.
 

Pennine

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This thread isn't going to encourage new members to join in, just saying!
I actually think these discussions are an important and awesome benefit to participating in these types of competitions. We basically get to know the judges and then can better understand their preferences. This is adds another dimension into the whole judging concept, creating a beer that someone specifically will appreciate. For example I learned that @Grizzly Notations likes sweeter beers so it signaled to me to send sweeter high abv brews his way. I find the traditional bjcp concept of judging to be boring and traditional, and I loathe traditional. I have been to 4 of the original brauerei in Dusseldorf to learn about Alt biers today. Sadly enough they all were good to style, but all kind of sucked from a personal taste preference. Basically boring and traditional, something I could make pretty easily if I wanted to. Doesnt mean they are bad beers just that I dont find them interesting.

Anyway, I think it's good to have an open discussion about feedback and judging styles and preferences. Just make sure we take the emotion out of it and consider the feedback (both directions) as constructive and as individual judgement. Let's try to understand each other a little better, these places are, after all, about building community.
 

Pennine

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Here is some feedback from a bad one I sent. I sent three and all three were honest and matched my thoughts verbatim. This is the batch I thought had gotten infected with a diastaticus strain. after 2 weeks it was a solid if not boring traditional American pale ale, Cascade etc.. after 3 weeks it changed completely, to exactly what was described below, so it was good to get some taste confirmation to confirm I'm not crazy and have an infection issue. The beer wasn't bad it just wasn't good either.



Aroma 4/12 Wet paper smell, couldn't detect any hops.

Appearance 2/3 Clarity medium – head was off white and faded slowish.

Flavour 7/20 Basic and lacking, an odd taste again – kveik style/stressed fermentationv- yeasty almost. Dead yeast? Malt backbone was decent enough and bitterness was there.

Mouthfeel 3/5 Well carbed and med mouthfeel.

Overall Impression 4/10 Just that faulty taste bud that scored you down, sorry.

Total 20/50
 

MartinHaworth

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I'm really grateful for the feedback. I got 15/50 on a beer I knew had significant faults. Thank you for your work.

I would comment that in judging, it is the relative scores rathert than the absolutes that are of most note. In the nationals my ris got 34 and no place. A colleague got a silver with the same score on a different table.

Best wishes Martin
 

MackemBrew

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ooo this almost got nasty! Now now gents!

Personally have no complaints with regards to my feedback, I thought it was bang on and was in line with what what I had from other people.

If every beer gets judged fairly and to the same standards, which this clearly was, then the actual score is irrelevant imo, stick an extra 3 points to every part if you want and the top 3 beers are still the top 3.

Hope this doesnt put off any new members from entering and even encourages more to join, personally found these comps/swaps a great way to expand my knowledge.

Big thanks again to @Ghillie
 

Mrhandsome

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Had one of my DIPAs last night and the hop aroma is almost completely gone. I'm actually amazed at how fast it went, I thought I might be getting a cold or something. I'll have to time my next one to be at prime hoppiness for competition.
 
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