Just nabbed a 1/4 cask! Imperial Stout meets wood experiment!

[krispn]

A local brewery has been offloading some 1/4 casks which initially were used for sherry then whiskey, Caol Ila. A fellow brewer and I are gonna brew a (same recipe) Imperial Stout (approx 11%) and fill the cask. We hope to age it for a minimum 6 months and see what happens! I'm kinda excited to have the opportunity and will be making some extra to keep aside in bottles and compare with the cask version down the line.

Any tips or advice for using a cask? We're gonna check it over for water-tightness etc. but any other experience shared would be great.

 

[peebee]

… initially were used for sherry then whiskey …

Initially? So they have been used since? If so there is probably no flavours to leach out (if hoping for "Innis and Gunn" type flavouring). But that is no worry. The "cask flavour" is very much a new caper. Casks were not expected to add flavours and efforts were made to ensure they didn't (even lining with pitch). But casks could harbour "infection" like Brettanomyces which would, in time, introduce welcome flavours. Wooden beer barrels were still used in high numbers during 1950s and 60s.

So don't expect dramatic flavours out of them unless you put them there (wood shavings, Brett cultures, etc.), but serving out of a wooden cask should still create envy!

 

[krispn]

The casks (maybe I should say barrels but they’re really 1/4 cask size) were used for sherry, once, then used by a distillery to age whisky in. These ones were emptied of their whisky very recently and we’re hoping we might get some of the whisky flavour from it. Isn’t that why folk age beer in old whisky casks to impart some flavours? In know I’ve tried a few but maybe I have it all wrong.

 

[peebee]

… Isn’t that why folk age beer in old whisky casks to impart some flavours? In know I’ve tried a few but maybe I have it all wrong. …

No you don't have it wrong. The idea to do it is "new" in practice (Innis & Gunn, Brewdog, etc.). If the casks are only recently emptied of whiskey they should impart flavour. But they will impart less flavour for subsequent use.

And like I said, serving beer from wooden casks will generate envy! But you will need to like "Real Ale" 'cos you can't put much pressure in them (or just use the cask for intermediate storage and not dispense).

 

[Ajhutch]

Nice! What is the volume of the barrel in litres, I’m not 100% sure what volume you mean by 1/4 cask.

One thought......I appreciate the excitement and desire to whack a big special beer in there, but if it’s your first time using a wood barrel for ageing, maybe better to brew a standard strength stout, with the expectation of it not needing long in the barrel to age, to enable you to get an idea of the barrel’s flavour profile and “behaviour”, I’m thinking whether it oxidises quickly, seems very tannic, etc. The lessons from that first brew would help you with the long term project.

I’m super excited for you and looking forward to hearing the results, I would love to grab some small barrels for ageing.

 

[krispn]

The barrel is approx 60L and you make a fair point but my counterpart and I are just keen to get some beer in there and we’re both aware of the risk. If it does work out then we’ll (hopefully) have an interesting beer and the smaller barrel should mean that it won’t need as long to impart what it will on the brew. We might do a check every 6 weeks or so to see how it’s going but we’ll break down the finer details when we next chat. Current plan it to get the beer made and fermented out with enough time for a nice steady ferment, allowing for a start at 18c and work it up gradually to 22c to complete and afford time for any potential trouble shooting - stuck fermentation etc. All being well we hope to transfer on the Summer Solstice 20th June and have it out 6 months later for the Winter Solstice or certainly see if it’s ready to go by Dec 21 as a target date.

I’m certainly excited and while it’s not our intention to serve from the barrel it’ll be good to get some bottled and aged for additional time to condition and be put away for additional time. 2020 feels like a goog even number to try this and considering how things have gone this could be a nice end to the year in some small way.

 

[Ajhutch]

Sounds like a good plan, best of luck with it!

 

[Cyberjip]

Few things to say about this.

You should get a good flavour from the cask. It will then subtly change taking on flavours from the beers you put in.

Is it setup like a normal beer cask with 2 openings? Shive and keystone.

You should defently leak test it. If it is made correctly the pressure should help seal any wheeps if you are cask conditioning.

Is it dry, how long has it been dry, You should always keep it full with liquid and not let them dry out to much.

Have you thought about sanitation?

 

[krispn]

Yeah we’re gonna test for leaks and there’s chat of a steam cleaner to be used but not sure if that’s gonna strip flavour. Due to the lockdown we're not getting a chance to arrange a day to do these things together so my fellow brewer will maybe be tasked with this duty. He has the space to store the cask once we fill it. So finer details still tp be ironed out - I think there’s a single bung/stopper hole but I’ve not seen the whole thing just yet other than one image. There might be a bit of whisky used to sanitise too but we’ll see...

 

[Cyberjip]

You should aim to brew a larger volume than the cask will take, because the last thing you want is to be short and leave any headspace whatsoever.

Ok. If its dry you need to get it soaking last month but if not right now will have to do. Is it clean?

If it is. I would recommend doing a quick leak test. A couple of little wheeps should be fine as when the wood absorbs some liquid it should expand and a bit of pressure should help further. When it has beer in the sticky liquid will also help to stop any small wheeps.

After you have done this I would add 1.5lites of normal table salt then fill to the brim with hot water aroumd 85c. Leave it like this untill you are ready to fill it. Then just drain give a good rinse and fill with beer.

One more thing. How are you planning to take samples because once you crack it open I would say it all needs to be packaged. Once you open it to the atmosphere it's only going to have a shelf life of days.

 

[krispn]

Great advice. I’ll get this list to my mate and see what’s what. Hopefully there is a tap to sample from but if not we’ll have to consider that it remains sealed for the 6 months.

 

[80/-]

Sounds great - I've got one in the shed waiting to go as well. Wasn't from Campervan was it?

For sampling, I was told to use Vinny's nail - see

What recipe did you go with? I've been wanting to do a Tonkoko style stout for a while, but that's probably not robust enough for barrel ageing.

 

[krispn]

Sounds great - I've got one in the shed waiting to go as well. Wasn't from Campervan was it?

For sampling, I was told to use Vinny's nail - see

What recipe did you go with? I've been wanting to do a Tonkoko style stout for a while, but that's probably not robust enough for barrel ageing.

Love the avatar pic :) and cheers for the link!

Yeah it was from Campervan and the recipe used was brewered by me and another local home brewer with basically the same ingredients. We hit close to our numbers I think my two batches averaged about 8.5%-9% so just a little under the planned 10%-11% I'd hoped for but it's not tasting bad and if it takes on the flavours of the cask (which had a wonderful aroma) it should make for an enjoyable winter night's sipper! I already have a few whisky drinkers at work showing a keen interest!

I can get you a copy of the recipe if you fancy a look.

 

[80/-]

Cheers Krispn

I've got an imperial stout recipe lined up, but wouldn't hurt to compare notes

Just need to work throught the logistics of quickly turning round 60l of beer through a 20l system!

I think probably time to dust off the brew buckets and set aside a weekend for a treble mash

 

[krispn]

We found that the cask was more than 60l so keep that in mind as it could be 70-80l to really fill it to the top.

I was gonna go with a Mikkeller recipe initially but opted for this... I really should have bunged some sugar into the boil to up the abv but it hit about 9% average. I did a reiterated mash to maximise efficiency and stirred the second batch every 10 min to increase efficiency further. The numbers on the right of the picture are total grain numbers and on the left the ‘split’ amounts used for the reiterated mash. The changes to the malt in orange were made as they were what I had available as substitute...

 

[80/-]

Like it! Not quite back of a fag packet, but pretty close


Is that a wee touch of smoked malt at the the bottom there? Hadn't thought about that - would go well with a hint of whisky, especially if you like an Isla single malt

 

[krispn]

Yeah that's smoked malt and a suggestion from my fellow brewer - makes a lot of sense considering the cask! I have the recipe in much prettier format but this was my rough copy when marking off the grains for the malt order - didn't wanna mess up as the recipe was to be pretty much identical!

I'd offer to do a brew day with you but I have too many other brews lined up! I've 500g each of Citra and Mosaic to get using in a juicy pale and a stout recipe I wanna experiment with! Having had the brew days and brew fridge tied up with the Imp Stout I've some catching up to do before the summer is away!
Maybe a shout out to some brewing mates and you could all go in on filling the cask with the same brew? I know I'm quite excited to see what happens come the first tasting. I think I'll bottle a good portion of it (if it's half decent) and then try a bottle every few months...or annually on it's birthday :)

 

[Nicks90]

Why not tap the top of the barrel and use a low pressure CO2 line?
That way you can even serve from the barrel and not worry about oxygen getting in and ruining it?

 

[80/-]

No worries - I've a friend with one of the big braumeisters and same sized FV that I'm looking to talk into doing some contract brewing for me

Just need to see when it's going to be empty and available.

 

[peebee]

Why not tap the top of the barrel and use a low pressure CO2 line?
That way you can even serve from the barrel and not worry about oxygen getting in and ruining it?

You describe the "cask widge" system. Home brewers use the floating extractors quite a lot to replace Corny keg rigid dip-tubes, but the extractors are just one element in a larger system. Designed for "upending" steel casks but are probably good for wooden casks (but upright wooden casks will just not look cool if on show). Not sure what you mean by "low-pressure CO2 line"? Any appreciable CO2 pressure will mess up the beer. If using hand-pumps (not gravity) a "breather" will be okay for a short time (a few days), though I prefer LPG regulators (up to 150mbar or 2psi) to keep the beer in condition for longer. A demand valve is in order 'tween cask and pump to prevent beer running back into the cask.

Even then, if aiming for allowing very low levels of carbonation (less than saturation at atmospheric pressure, or approx. <0.9 volumes of CO2) you have to apply other "tricks".