Keir Starmer.

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terrym

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I don't know a lot about Starmer but whoever guides the UK after this current crisis is going to have to show a lot of leadership to get the debt back down to a respectable level.
That's the first bit of sense I've read on this Forum this evening. athumb..
Plenty of offensive nonsense on the other topical thread though.
 

MyQul

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I don't know a lot about Starmer but whoever guides the UK after this current crisis is going to have to show a lot of leadership to get the debt back down to a respectable level.
True, but how. We've just had ten years of austerity which was blown apart to try to save all the workers/economy by Sunak. Im not sure how much more austerity people would put with. We're also used to low taxes in the UK and people like that. Again I'm wonder how people would react to tax Increases. I can only think future generations will be paying to save this one. The Government are ina very tricky postion
 
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MartinHaworth

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It's worth having look at his wiki bio.

Started on a council estate, done well, always stood up for the people at the bottom of the pile.
 

An Ankoù

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whoever guides the UK after this current crisis is going to have to show a lot of leadership to get the debt back down to a respectable level.
There's going to be a lot needs doing before the debt is addressed. I reckon on a decade of getting the newly unemployed back into work, rebuilding institutions like the NHS, educational establishments and the Police after a decade of mindless cuts etc, etc. Taxes will have to rise and those who can are going to have to fork out a bit more. I predict a chorus of squealing gammon. Then, when things are tickety-boo again and the country's back on an even keel, we can start looking at the national debt. As the man said: it's not going to be back to business as usual, there are going to be some real changes. Bring in on, I say.
 

foxy

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True but how. We've just had ten years of austerity which was blown apart to try to save all the workers/economy by Sunak. Im not sure how much more austerity people would put with. We're also used to low taxes in the UK and people like that. Again I'm wonder how people would react to tax increases
Well I had concerns about the economy in Australia, our debt is about 20% of GDP. The UK before all this borrowing was 80% of the GDP. With all the resulting unemployment when this is over, the money has to come from somewhere.
We are all going to need strong leadership coming out of this crisis, come out and hit the straps to get the economy growing. Keir Starmer looks like he is perpetually worried, not a good look for a leader, and his speech was a bit feeble and not positive enough. A leader doesn't ask the factions to come together, he demands them to come together.
 

An Ankoù

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True, but how. We've just had ten years of austerity which was blown apart to try to save all the workers/economy by Sunak. Im not sure how much more austerity people would put with. We're also used to low taxes in the UK and people like that. Again I'm wonder how people would react to tax Increases. I can only think future generations will be paying to save this one. The Government are ina very tricky postion
Only the poor pay taxes, MyQul. The rich have tax evasion schemes, top accountants and offshore bank accounts. Sort that out and we're more than half-way there to solving the problem.
 

An Ankoù

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Well I had concerns about the economy in Australia, our debt is about 20% of GDP. The UK before all this borrowing was 80% of the GDP. With all the resulting unemployment when this is over, the money has to come from somewhere.
We are all going to need strong leadership coming out of this crisis, come out and hit the straps to get the economy growing. Keir Starmer looks like he is perpetually worried, not a good look for a leader, and his speech was a bit feeble and not positive enough. A leader doesn't ask the factions to come together, he demands them to come together.
He isn't leader yet, only leader of the Opposition. I think he's a lot brighter and more capable than some give him credit for. Andrew Marr asked him repeatedly if he would be up for a party of national unity. He declined repeatedly to answer that question and I was disappointed he didn't come out with a straight out "no". But in retrospect, if anything happens to Boris (please, God) such a coalition would make Starmer the de facto leader of the country since Raab and the other rabble haven't got an ounce of leadership between them.
 

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Only the poor pay taxes, MyQul. The rich have tax evasion schemes, top accountants and offshore bank accounts. Sort that out and we're more than half-way there to solving the problem.
Not tax evasion schemes, there is no such thing, there are legitimate ways of reducing tax, even offshore bank accounts aren't a way of hiding funds they still have to be declared. In the not to distant future the only thing they will be good for is protection of assets from law suits.
 

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The Tories only want a government of national unity to have someone else to blame. Keir knows that and is too astute to answer. If he says no the right wing press will accuse him of not being patriotic.
 

An Ankoù

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Not tax evasion schemes, there is no such thing,
Well in fact there are, but they're illegal. I tripped over my words and should have said tax avoidance schemes, which are often dodgy in that they exploit loopholes. Why a well-off person should not want to make his contribution to the state which supports him and upholds the conditions for him to become wealthy is beyond me. (Well it's not, because I've seen Rees-Mogg). You're wrong about offshore accounts. They're not called "tax havens" for nothing.
The Tories only want a government of national unity to have someone else to blame. Keir knows that and is too astute to answer. If he says no the right wing press will accuse him of not being patriotic.
I'm not sure the Tories have even asked for one. I suspect they're far to arrogant to even consider it. Nevertheless, we live in very fast-moving times and Keir has kept his options open.
 

jjsh

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We're also used to low taxes in the UK and people like that.
That's a common misconception. Tax levels are the highest they have ever been in since the 1950's, when we were paying for a war, it's just that a lot of the tax burden is stealth taxes. Overall, the tax take is about average for a developed country. There isn't a huge scope for an overall increase in taxation as a % of GDP.

Once this is all over, the country will be potentially bankrupt; unable to borrow any more and unable to ramp up taxes without adversely affecting consumer spending and thus the economy. Severe austerity, and by that I mean actual austerity like that which they had in Greece, is a possibility irrespective of whoever is in charge. It isn't going to be fun.
 

MyQul

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That's a common misconception. Tax levels are the highest they have ever been in since the 1950's, when we were paying for a war, it's just that a lot of the tax burden is stealth taxes. Overall, the tax take is about average for a developed country. There isn't a huge scope for an overall increase in taxation as a % of GDP.

Once this is all over, the country will be potentially bankrupt; unable to borrow any more and unable to ramp up taxes without adversely affecting consumer spending and thus the economy. Severe austerity, and by that I mean actual austerity like that which they had in Greece, is a possibility irrespective of whoever is in charge. It isn't going to be fun.
This misconception however is used as a stick to beat Labour. Whenever Labour propose something the cry is, 'how will we pay for it? Labour will increase my taxes' and this is what people 'see' and therefore the Conservative are 'seen' as a low tax option. This is what I mean when I say the UK like low taxes. Whether they actually are (ie your explanation of stealth taxes), it's the perception that people go by

I agree we may well be bankrupt. I've been reading that we will be entering a deep recession (if not depression) because of C-19. The conservative also seem to still be keen on pushing through Brexit. Noone knows what will happen when we end the transition period but Brexit has already cost billions and I havent come across anything that says that will change. Added to that your explanation of how we wont be able to borrow or ramp taxes, 'not going to be fun' is an understatement
 

An Ankoù

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Once this is all over, the country will be potentially bankrupt; unable to borrow any more and unable to ramp up taxes without adversely affecting consumer spending and thus the economy. Severe austerity, and by that I mean actual austerity like that which they had in Greece, is a possibility irrespective of whoever is in charge. It isn't going to be fun.
I agree we may well be bankrupt. I've been reading that we will be entering a deep recession (if not depression) because of C-19. The conservative also seem to still be keen on pushing through Brexit. Noone knows what will happen when we end the transition period but Brexit has already cost billions and I havent come across anything that says that will change. Added to that your explanation of how we wont be able to borrow or ramp taxes, 'not going to be fun' is an understatement
I think you're both being unduly pessimistic. The economic post- C19 situation has nothing to do with the Greek debacle which was entirely the fault of Lagarde's manipulations and their unwillingness to leave the Eurozone. The state of the UK economy has needed a good shakeup and proper redistribution of wealth for some decades now, and, like it or not, the post-C19 scenario is going to bring that about to a chorus of squealing gammon. Raising taxes restricts the economy? Nonsense, wealth doesn't trickle down it is siphoned off into offshore accounts. Austerity is better for the economy than raising taxes? For Rees-Mogg's economy and that of his pestilential ilk, yes! So take heart and raise a pint to a new dawn and a new day. I'm feeling good about the future.
 

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To be fair to all parties, we haven't had genuine tax reductions since the Lawson era and the theory there was to kick start the economy: perhaps we will see that for a while after this is over to encourage people to spend? It will be interesting to see what direction Starmer will take; a Blairist social democratic partnership sort of approach or Corbyns left wing command and control approach.
 

MyQul

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Well I had concerns about the economy in Australia, our debt is about 20% of GDP. The UK before all this borrowing was 80% of the GDP. With all the resulting unemployment when this is over, the money has to come from somewhere.
We are all going to need strong leadership coming out of this crisis, come out and hit the straps to get the economy growing. Keir Starmer looks like he is perpetually worried, not a good look for a leader, and his speech was a bit feeble and not positive enough. A leader doesn't ask the factions to come together, he demands them to come together.

Give the man a chance. He's only just started! :laugh8:

Your right though, we're (all) going to need decisive leadership to get through this and it's become clear that BJ (as well as the other populist leader like trump and bolsonaro) are completley inadequate. Matt Hancock has shown far more leadership that BJ has (and probably not doing his career and any leadership ambitions he may have any harm). He's been front and centre most of the time during this crisis

"A leader doesn't ask the factions to come together, he demands them to come together." Thb you could be describing BJ there as he tentatively requested a Goverment of national unity the other day. BJ's style seem to be to 'float' an idea out there and see what the reaction is and only go with it if he gets a positive response
 

MyQul

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Only the poor pay taxes, MyQul. The rich have tax evasion schemes, top accountants and offshore bank accounts. Sort that out and we're more than half-way there to solving the problem.
Cant disagree with anything you've said there as it seems if you've got enough money you can hire tax accounts to use the, perfectly legal, loopholes to get away with paying less tax
 

MyQul

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The Tories only want a government of national unity to have someone else to blame. Keir knows that and is too astute to answer. If he says no the right wing press will accuse him of not being patriotic.
True but Im pretty sure I read (perhaps yesterday) that he'd agreed to do so
 

MyQul

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The state of the UK economy has needed a good shakeup and proper redistribution of wealth for some decades now, and, like it or not, the post-C19 scenario is going to bring that about to a chorus of squealing gammon.
Im pretty sceptical of that happening. Those with the wealth and power in this country aren't going t to simply hand it over to those without
 

An Ankoù

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Im pretty sceptical of that happening. Those with the wealth and power in this country aren't going t to simply hand it over to those without
Nope. They won't. Neither will the "little man" who's put his life savings into his now-failed business or the newly unemployed with a family to feed and a mortgage to pay continue to stand by and watch the fat get even fatter. I think it's time for a Keiser Chiefs song.
 
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