Kveik

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DCBC

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My other Voss beer from the same vendor has the same flavours, definitely pointing towards dead yeast. I think they are relatively new and don't want to name and shame so I'll pm you.

I have a 3rd yeast from the same seller, I think I'll chuck it.
Nice one, many thanks
 

jceg316

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If its any help i have tasted starters built up from tiny amounts of dried yeast and it tasted a bit cack. Decanted and fed it again and subsequent beers have been great. Always make a starter to evaluate yeast health.
By starter do you mean on a stirplate with 500ml of 1040 wort for a couple of days? Do you temp control your kveik starters? For these brews I made a starter of first running but both were lifeless.
 

jceg316

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Is anyone up for a swap? I'd like to get my hands on certain yeasts, can do a bottle swap and culture up bottle dregs.

I'm after Simonaitis (with lacto), farmhouse Voss and Oslo.

I have Skare and Ebbegarden with lacto.
 

Mrhandsome

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First taste of my Olso lager-like and it's pretty good. Needs a few more weeks lagering but it's very nice already. The Hull Melon hops have come through nicely too with a faint melon flavour.
 

Joust

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I think mine must have an infection.

It's sour. But it's actually really nice ice cold with carbonation.

Strangely two of my extract brews have turned out like this from a slurry. But a cider I made using the same slurry (from one of the sour beers) hasn't got any sourness.

I guess the bacteria needs something in the malt to breed, which apple juice lacks...

What is the deal? Should I just enjoy it as it is or add something to balance out the acid?

Btw - it's not killed me or made me s**t my keks (more than usual)
 

jceg316

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I think mine must have an infection.

It's sour. But it's actually really nice ice cold with carbonation.

Strangely two of my extract brews have turned out like this from a slurry. But a cider I made using the same slurry (from one of the sour beers) hasn't got any sourness.

I guess the bacteria needs something in the malt to breed, which apple juice lacks...

What is the deal? Should I just enjoy it as it is or add something to balance out the acid?

Btw - it's not killed me or made me s**t my keks (more than usual)
sourness is from lactobacillus or pediococcus, the former souring wort in a few days and the latter needing up to a year to get a decent sourness, so we can probably rule that out. Most strains of lacto are hop intolerant and won't be able to sour wort beyond ~10 IBU, and even with less IBU it will severely limit what it can do. Where my memory isn't so good, lacto eats proteins as well as sugar, so maybe there aren't the right proteins in apples?

It's a similar story with certain brett strains as well. Brett is hop tolerant and depending on the strain gives off a wide range of flavours, including a tartness, although this is a lot more restrained than the sourness lacto can give. Similarly it eats proteins and sugars brewers yeast can't eat and maybe these aren't in apples? Having said that I have had brett get into batches of cider but nothing sour or tart.

It could be the yeast is ok but somewhere along the line a bug is getting in due to sanitisation issues.

If it's tasty then that's great and enjoy! I love sour beers. Apparently Berliner weisse is often enjoyed with fruit syrups to balance out the sourness.
 

Joust

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sourness is from lactobacillus or pediococcus, the former souring wort in a few days and the latter needing up to a year to get a decent sourness, so we can probably rule that out. Most strains of lacto are hop intolerant and won't be able to sour wort beyond ~10 IBU, and even with less IBU it will severely limit what it can do. Where my memory isn't so good, lacto eats proteins as well as sugar, so maybe there aren't the right proteins in apples?

It's a similar story with certain brett strains as well. Brett is hop tolerant and depending on the strain gives off a wide range of flavours, including a tartness, although this is a lot more restrained than the sourness lacto can give. Similarly it eats proteins and sugars brewers yeast can't eat and maybe these aren't in apples? Having said that I have had brett get into batches of cider but nothing sour or tart.

It could be the yeast is ok but somewhere along the line a bug is getting in due to sanitisation issues.

If it's tasty then that's great and enjoy! I love sour beers. Apparently Berliner weisse is often enjoyed with fruit syrups to balance out the sourness.
Thank you so much. Very informative.

Hop intolerance males sense...
I'm doing lazy brewing at the moment where I'm only adding dry hop and bittering hop extract at the end (nothing at the beginning)...
I'll do another with some reserved slurry and add the isomered hop extract at the beginning to see if it make a difference.
Experiment time!
 

Fuzzy Growler

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I've brewed the mj Australian pale ale this morning and swapped the yeast for Kveik, I've such a violent fermentation already and I'm worried it may blow the lid off, thinking of putting it in the bath... First time using this yeast
 

BeerCat

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By starter do you mean on a stirplate with 500ml of 1040 wort for a couple of days? Do you temp control your kveik starters? For these brews I made a starter of first running but both were lifeless.
If i don't have a stirplate free i uses a 2l water bottle. Never worry about temp control for starters of any kind.
 

BeerCat

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Does any of you add the dark and crystal malts later in the mash. I am doing a choc coconut stout with only 66% base malt and thought i may try adding them after an hour or does it even matter? Thinking these lager kveik strains could be good for stouts.
 

nixhaz

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Is anyone up for a swap? I'd like to get my hands on certain yeasts, can do a bottle swap and culture up bottle dregs.

I'm after Simonaitis (with lacto), farmhouse Voss and Oslo.

I have Skare and Ebbegarden with lacto.
I've not bottled mine, but can send you some Oslo slurry if you would like it? Just pm me your addy.
 

jceg316

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Thank you so much. Very informative.

Hop intolerance males sense...
I'm doing lazy brewing at the moment where I'm only adding dry hop and bittering hop extract at the end (nothing at the beginning)...
I'll do another with some reserved slurry and add the isomered hop extract at the beginning to see if it make a difference.
Experiment time!
I wonder if bittering hop extract contains the thing which prevents lactobacillus? Maybe not if you're getting sour beers. Anyway, good luck with it!
 

Joust

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I wonder if bittering hop extract contains the thing which prevents lactobacillus? Maybe not if you're getting sour beers. Anyway, good luck with it!
I've been adding at the end of fermentation. So the bacteria would have had chance to breed.

I'll try adding it early on and see what happens next time.

I've just have a pint of it now. Mega fruity Voss with sourness and a strong dry hop is pretty blood good on a hot Sunday afternoon.
 
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jceg316

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I've been adding at the end of fermentation. So the bacteria would have had chance to breed.

I'll try adding it early on and see what happens next time.

I've just have a pint of it now. Mega fruity Voss with sourness and a strong dry hop is pretty blood good on a got Sunday afternoon.
Ah I get you now! Yes it's likely to be lactobacillus then in the beer. To be fair, that sounds like a delicious beer!
 

PhilBrew

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Hi @Joust and @jceg316
But a cider I made using the same slurry (from one of the sour beers) hasn't got any sourness.
...
Where my memory isn't so good, lacto eats proteins as well as sugar, so maybe there aren't the right proteins in apples?
... it's, not so much what isn't in apples that makes the cider different, as what is :?: ... weirdly, it probably is still the case that you have a lactic acid bacteria (LAB) infection in that yeast, but whereas the LAB will have been creating lactic acid to make your beers taste sour, in (already sour) apple juice it also converts the (more sour) malic acid to lactic acid and de-acidifies the finished cider and softens the taste :?:
More info there (link)

Cheers, PhilB
 

Joust

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Hi @Joust and @jceg316
... it's, not so much what isn't in apples that makes the cider different, as what is :?: ... weirdly, it probably is still the case that you have a lactic acid bacteria (LAB) infection in that yeast, but whereas the LAB will have been creating lactic acid to make your beers taste sour, in (already sour) apple juice it also converts the (more sour) malic acid to lactic acid and de-acidifies the finished cider and softens the taste :?:
More info there (link)

Cheers, PhilB
Cool. That actually makes a lot of sense too. My cider was fairly mild.

I'm definitely keeping a sample of this infected yeast. Buy will get some clean voss to compare too.
 
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