Leaky kegs

[Jason42]

So I brewed 25l of strong Suffolk ale (festival beer kit). It was my first attempt and so I made a few mistakes and it wasn’t the best beer I’ve ever tasted but I was oddly proud of it and felt that I had achieved something drinkable, even if it wouldn’t have won any awards.
I put it in a pressure keg, left it to mature and then managed to drink nearly half of it. I came home from work one morning to find the other half on my kitchen floor. It had leaked through the tap.
So much for cheap pressure kegs. My question is, is it worth buying a better one? And if so, which?

 

[Buffers brewery]

Can't you just replace the tap? I assume it's a standard tap hole size?

 

[terrym]

PBs are the Marmite equipment of homebrewing. You either like them or you don't. They are brilliant when they work but a pita when they don't. Most who have owned them and now don't like them were most likely turned off them by the tendency to leak from seals or splits, often when its most inconvenient. I have had four (admittedly cheap) Youngs PBs and three failed within two years of purchase due to splits in the shell or pinhole leaks so when the last one give up thats me finished with them. That said some others have had good service from King Kegs (although others haven't) but for upwards of £50 a barrel you would expect it to work for some time wouldnt you. Then there's the group who bypass PBs altogether and buy Corny kegs and operate them, but that requires more outlay but the bonus is they will be far more reliable.
So there is really no straightforward answer.
But as @Buffers brewery has said why not just replace the tap. And then you should have a serviceable PB, see how long it lasts and when/if it fails or leaks from somewhere else decide then what you want to do.

 

[Jason42]

I think I was so annoyed at seeing my precious beer all over the floor that I never considered just replacing the tap. Bloody obvious, really.
I was thinking of a king keg but a new tap would be worth a try for next time.
Luckily, I also made a batch of Belgian style dubbel and bottled it. Just ready now and I’m very happy with it

 

[Buffers brewery]

I've got 2 King Kegs, and as @terrym says, they are not without their problems regarding leaks, finding them and fixing them. However, I haven't had any problems with the taps.......yet

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I've got 2 King Kegs, and as @terrym says, they are not without their problems regarding leaks, finding them and fixing them. However, I haven't had any problems with the taps.......yet

Over the time I’ve had King Kegs I’ve learned a lot about leaks - including the taps. When I first start using a King Keg the tap thread gets heavily wrapped in PTFE tape - this seals the thread but also allows you to tighten the plastic nut without the threads slipping and consequently lets you get a good squeeze on the rubber seal between the tap body and the keg body. You’ll also need a good smear of Vaseline on the tap itself or beer will permanently drip from the tap.

I also replace the pressure release rubber on the S30 valve because this is a common failure point (the rubber looses elasticity) and lets all the gas out. Also fit a cable tie round the pressure inlet rubber to save this getting blown off into your beer when injecting CO2!

The keg cap needs a good grunt of tightening, especially when new, and a cap spanner is a good investment.

This all sounds a faff, and is, but can be done once at the beginning and makes life a little less stressful.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Over the time I’ve had King Kegs I’ve learned a lot about leaks - including the taps. When I first start using a King Keg the tap thread gets heavily wrapped in PTFE tape - this seals the thread but also allows you to tighten the plastic nut without the threads slipping and consequently lets you get a good squeeze on the rubber seal between the tap body and the keg body. You’ll also need a good smear of Vaseline on the tap itself or beer will permanently drip from the tap.

I also replace the pressure release rubber on the S30 valve because this is a common failure point (the rubber looses elasticity) and lets all the gas out. Also fit a cable tie round the pressure inlet rubber to save this getting blown off into your beer when injecting CO2!

The keg cap needs a good grunt of tightening, especially when new, and a cap spanner is a good investment.

This all sounds a faff, and is, but can be done once at the beginning and makes life a little less stressful.

Agree with everything you say @Hazelwood Brewery . I’ve also flattened the top face of the keg by taping a sheet of very fine “wet & dry” sand paper to a piece of glass for flatness (I used a surplus shelf from my brew fridge). With glass on a flat surface turned the keg over a gave it a few turns on the W&D and the sealing face of the keg was nice and flat and smooth. I also replaced the rubber band safety valve with a proper 15psi safety valve when I fitted a pressure gauge.
I also made a “socket” thingy from plywood that fits into the base of the KK so I can stop the keg from turning when I’m tightening or undoing the cap.
Oh, and I modified the S30 valve so I can add CO2 without having to take the KK out of the fridge.
Apart from that, the KK is a great product

 

[Wherrypuzzled]

Hi Hazelwood Brewery

Just returning to brewing due to Virus having years ago have been as far up as 3 Pub Barrels and a beer engine with full size co2

However Im back with 2 PBs from a few years ago and am just adding another Top Tap King Keg - and mostly without incident(s) so I was pleased to see your post here and have a couple of questions

I will add PTFE Tape to the Tap (I have ordered a Sparkler Tap for new KK) but also noted you said add " agood smear of Vaseline to the Tap etc...) but tbh I dont know why or where so could I ask that please AND as I am having Sparkler Tap is that still relevant please ?

Do you change the S30 Valve rubber every brew ?

Again (sorry) I dont quite "get" the Cable tidy reference - so could you explain that a bit more please. Is it in the Barrel I guess yes (as the seal you say could end up in the Beer)

Lastly and I really DO owe you a Pint - I will invest in a Spanner for the lid fitting in future

Many thanks Wherrypuzzled

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Hi Hazelwood Brewery

Just returning to brewing due to Virus having years ago have been as far up as 3 Pub Barrels and a beer engine with full size co2

However Im back with 2 PBs from a few years ago and am just adding another Top Tap King Keg - and mostly without incident(s) so I was pleased to see your post here and have a couple of questions

I will add PTFE Tape to the Tap (I have ordered a Sparkler Tap for new KK) but also noted you said add " agood smear of Vaseline to the Tap etc...) but tbh I dont know why or where so could I ask that please AND as I am having Sparkler Tap is that still relevant please ?

Do you change the S30 Valve rubber every brew ?

Again (sorry) I dont quite "get" the Cable tidy reference - so could you explain that a bit more please. Is it in the Barrel I guess yes (as the seal you say could end up in the Beer)

Lastly and I really DO owe you a Pint - I will invest in a Spanner for the lid fitting in future

Many thanks Wherrypuzzled

Hi Wherry!

First, taps. There are several types, I’ve pictured the two most commonly supplied. If you use the tap on the left you can forget my comment about using Vaseline on the tap.



If you have the tap on the right then a good smear of Vaseline is needed to stop the tap from constantly dripping. Pull the tap out of the body, a good smear of Vaseline, replace it, and wipe away the excess.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Hi Hazelwood Brewery

Just returning to brewing due to Virus having years ago have been as far up as 3 Pub Barrels and a beer engine with full size co2

However Im back with 2 PBs from a few years ago and am just adding another Top Tap King Keg - and mostly without incident(s) so I was pleased to see your post here and have a couple of questions

I will add PTFE Tape to the Tap (I have ordered a Sparkler Tap for new KK) but also noted you said add " agood smear of Vaseline to the Tap etc...) but tbh I dont know why or where so could I ask that please AND as I am having Sparkler Tap is that still relevant please ?

Do you change the S30 Valve rubber every brew ?

Again (sorry) I dont quite "get" the Cable tidy reference - so could you explain that a bit more please. Is it in the Barrel I guess yes (as the seal you say could end up in the Beer)

Lastly and I really DO owe you a Pint - I will invest in a Spanner for the lid fitting in future

Many thanks Wherrypuzzled

The PTFE tape will stop a leak around the tap thread and allow you to tighten the fixing nut further without risk of the nut jumping the threads. You can better pinch the rubber seal between the tap and the keg body avoiding pressurised beer squeezing out. I used about 14 turns of PTFE tape I think.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Next the valve. Again there are a couple of models. The pressure release rubber is the brown rubber seal you can see on the brass valve. It’s hiding inside the ring with the hole in the stainless steel model but they both use the same seal and do the same thing. The rubber looses elasticity over time and if not replaced periodically they leak despite looking perfectly serviceable. I generally replace them when I get a new keg (it may have been on a shelf for some time), when I have unexplained pressure losses, and routinely after 18 months. You can buy individual seals or a set.





The cable-tie trick is also applied to these valves but on the CO2 injection non-return seal which looks like this.



When CO2 is injected it comes in through the hole you can see through the rubber. If the gas comes in a bit quick it will push the rubber seal completely off the pin and into your beer letting all the gas out immediately and leaving you to try and fish it out (or fit another if you happen to have one). If you fix the rubber on with a small cable-tie you won’t have this problem. Just be sure to not fit the cable-tie directly over the hole!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I think that’s all the questions covered but for completeness, here’s a picture of a cap spanner

 

[Wherrypuzzled]

Wow - what can I say except thanks thanks and thanks.

Tap - yes ironically mine is like the one one the right and yes it leaks (drips) very very slightly and I mark the tap and a place on the body with a vertical pencil line so I can align the two and minimise the drip

PTFE will be going on the new KK when it comes tomorrow and before fitting the Sparkler Tap

Also doing it to original KK which is being upgraded to have a Sparkler Tap.

I hope these help my pouring because current tap on KK is very stiff and its hard to get it open to dispense at the speed I need . So pulling 2 pints involves 3 pint pots and the 3rd is used to decant into numbers 1 & 2

Just buying KK with s30 Valve and a matching Valve for original KK and I will check that pressure release rubber on both

Finally yes the internal rubber / cable tie now makes complete sense. TBH I have never noticed that feature and so I will take note to look and (after sterilising Cable tie - I have OCD when it comes to Brewing lol) I will secure that too - and of course not obstruct the hole itself. Without coaching I may well have blocked it with the tie wrap

So can I just say thanks again not only for taking the trouble to reply so comprehensively but to go to the trouble of taking / posting all the photos so a cretin like me can see and learn - I chose my Forum name carefully lol

Many thanks Wherry(less)puzzled

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Wow - what can I say except thanks thanks and thanks.

Tap - yes ironically mine is like the one one the right and yes it leaks (drips) very very slightly and I mark the tap and a place on the body with a vertical pencil line so I can align the two and minimise the drip

PTFE will be going on the new KK when it comes tomorrow and before fitting the Sparkler Tap

Also doing it to original KK which is being upgraded to have a Sparkler Tap.

I hope these help my pouring because current tap on KK is very stiff and its hard to get it open to dispense at the speed I need . So pulling 2 pints involves 3 pint pots and the 3rd is used to decant into numbers 1 & 2

Just buying KK with s30 Valve and a matching Valve for original KK and I will check that pressure release rubber on both

Finally yes the internal rubber / cable tie now makes complete sense. TBH I have never noticed that feature and so I will take note to look and (after sterilising Cable tie - I have OCD when it comes to Brewing lol) I will secure that too - and of course not obstruct the hole itself. Without coaching I may well have blocked it with the tie wrap

So can I just say thanks again not only for taking the trouble to reply so comprehensively but to go to the trouble of taking / posting all the photos so a cretin like me can see and learn - I chose my Forum name carefully lol

Many thanks Wherry(less)puzzled

You’re very welcome. We all know stuff and have no clue about other stuff - that’s where a forum like this can make our lives so much easier and in my view this is one of the best (disclaimer: I haven’t tried ‘em all ).

We all enjoy a good head and I’m not sure a sparkler tap will make pouring a pint any easier but to be honest I don’t care that I serve a good head, I’m not paying and neither are my guests .

Good luck!

 

[Wherrypuzzled]

Thanks again

With the Sparkler Tap my thought was its press down or lift up rather than turning a tight tap.

The tight tap sometimes does not open enough to let beer out with a head and yet a slight touch more and b-o-o-m a gigantic head - and another pitfall I have found is as the Barrel empties and becomes lighter if you have to give the tap a twist as its stuck it moves the Barrel

Will let people know how the Sparkler Tap compares - and back on topic they say "no drips"

 

[Petefin]

Hi Wherrypuzzled,
If you haven't bought one yet, I have a spanner I made for my King Keg caps that I no longer need as I have done away with the original caps. It is a bit more substantial than the ones you can buy.
Send me your address and I'll stick it in the post to you.
Cheers, Pete

 

[Wherrypuzzled]

Hi Pete

Thanks very much for the offer and I have sent you a PM (worked it out eventually lol)

Many thanks JT

 

[Buffers brewery]

Hi @Petefin , how are your new caps working out? BTW what plastic did you use for the lid? Polycarbonate or perspex? How does it perform under pressure. As you know, I made mine from an acrylic casting that was flat when cast. But since it’s been in use now for 3 weeks it’s taken on a dome shape. Still holds pressure though thumb

 

[Petefin]

Hi @Buffers brewery,
Caps working well. The material is Lexon, 10mm, used for machine guards. Very tough, thinner sheets can be bent in a metal bending machine, but only up to around 5mm thickness. It machines very well and the thinner sheets can also be guillotined.
I'm still working on the CO2 free system, will report back with photos soon.
Cheers, Pete

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Wherrypuzzled

... have been as far up as 3 Pub Barrels and a beer engine with full size co2 ...

... do you still have that beer engine stored away in a shed/garage somewhere, perchance? Because at the expense of a beer line non-return valve, you could always connect that up to the tap on your PB ... then you'd leave the tap on the PB open and the non-return valve would hold the beer/pressure in, until you pulled on the beer engine and the valve would open and beer would flow (those "non-return valves" should be strictly called "demand valves", because they open when suction from the beer engine side "demands" it, but the "non-return" name stuck somehow, apparently) ... I find the "disruption" of the beer being pulled through the engine, through a swan neck and through a sparkler (if/when I choose to add one) makes beer from a PB much more cask like, when I connect mine up like that

Cheers, PhilB