License for tasting beer

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Clint

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Out of interest...does anyone know of anywhere that habitually gives away alcohol (except the church)...?
 

nige

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A home brewing course, mabe aheadbutt
:coat:my last post on this matter.
 
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Cwrw666

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I thought it was for personal consumption.
On another thread ages ago this came up and someone said they'd asked HMRC and had been told it was an overly harsh interpretation of the law. ie. you can give away your homebrew to friends etc. Even to the Mrs if you have to.
 

simon12

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I think we have found a grey area. As we have confirmed giving away alcohol doesn't require a license but I don't think the authorities will see giving in to people who have paid for a course a gift. Like an unlicensed restaurant can't give away a bottle of wine if you buy 2 mains but could the owner gift a bottle to there best customer on there birthday purely out of friendship? I don't know.
 

Chippy_Tea

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On another thread ages ago this came up and someone said they'd asked HMRC and had been told it was an overly harsh interpretation of the law. ie. you can give away your homebrew to friends etc. Even to the Mrs if you have to.
Thanks Cwrw.
 

nige

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Sorry I can't leave this, Simon, should any restaurant in the whole world decide to give a free meal and 6 bottles of wine, they could and they would pay no tax as they lost money. No law on the planet can prevent a gift of something legally allowed to have. A gift isn't sales. I could give you anything I have or there is no such thing as a gift. Business sence constricts this because profit is the reason for trading however small gifts are often offered ie free poppadoms, mints although often hidden in the price there prices can't show this or its a lie and in breach of trading standards, so if its free it must be made to seem free or indeed be free.so the only time free is illegal is when its not.
 
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MickDundee

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should any restaurant in the whole world decide to give a free meal and 6 bottles of wine, they could and they would pay no tax as they lost money.
They would pay no tax, but if they didn’t have an alcohol licence they wouldn’t be allowed to give the wine in the restaurant as part of the prize.

However, in a restaurant with no alcohol licence, a customer can bring their own alcohol at no charge.
 

RichardM

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Sorry I can't leave this, Simon, should any restaurant in the whole world decide to give a free meal and 6 bottles of wine, they could and they would pay no tax as they lost money. No law on the planet can prevent a gift of something legally allowed to have. A gift isn't sales. I could give you anything I have or there is no such thing as a gift. Business sence constricts this because profit is the reason for trading however small gifts are often offered ie free poppadoms, mints although often hidden in the price there prices can't show this or its a lie and in breach of trading standards, so if its free it must be made to seem free or indeed be free.so the only time free is illegal is when its not.
We are talking about licences and paying duty, not paying tax on profits
 

simon12

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Sorry I can't leave this, Simon, should any restaurant in the whole world decide to give a free meal and 6 bottles of wine, they could and they would pay no tax as they lost money. No law on the planet can prevent a gift of something legally allowed to have. A gift isn't sales. I could give you anything I have or there is no such thing as a gift. Business sence constricts this because profit is the reason for trading however small gifts are often offered ie free poppadoms, mints although often hidden in the price there prices can't show this or its a lie and in breach of trading standards, so if its free it must be made to seem free or indeed be free.so the only time free is illegal is when its not.
Sorry i'm not sure what your trying to say but I agree a restaurant could do an offer where all food and drink is free on there opening day but they cannot offer free alcohol with a purchase of any type without a license, also tax and profit have nothing to do with it.
 

nige

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If you don't earn yo can't pay tax on earnings, it was just a for instance, weather the person has a licence to sell alcohol or not doesn't prevent him giving me a bottle of his own personal wine to take home. Licences are irrelevant. The bloke from the chippy can give me a bottle of wine.
 

RichardM

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If you don't earn yo can't pay tax on earnings, it was just a for instance, weather the person has a licence to sell alcohol or not doesn't prevent him giving me a bottle of his own personal wine to take home. Licences are irrelevant. The bloke from the chippy can give me a bottle of wine.
Yes but that has nothing to do with the OP's question.
 

nige

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I give up. A gift of a taster of what's been made during a homebrew class isn't illegal. There is no need for a licence to sell beer. He is only even talking of unfermented beer.
 

MickDundee

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I give up. A gift of a taster of what's been made during a homebrew class isn't illegal. There is no need for a licence to sell beer. He is only even talking of unfermented beer.
He wasn’t though, he was talking about buying bottles of commercial examples of the styles of beer and providing them as part of the course. If the course fee includes samples of beers of style then there’s a pretty good chance he’ll need a licence.
 

nige

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If he isn't making profit then it is a gift. I'd just do it anyway, his class is of knowledge passed on so examples of what's being taught about is expected, as long as these examples are gift samples not involved with his earnings as a tutor then he as nothing to worry about. Who would complain. How he conducts his lessons are he's wish. He's paid for them so can give them to who he wishes. I call it going the extra mile and may not be viable but could use his hombrew instead.
 

nige

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OK not getting dragged down with this, I've taught in schools and night college, pupils, student and adults.
Taken business through planning successfully to completion. I struggle to see the difficulties some people are seem intent on fabricating. Difficulties to complcate someone's pashion.
 
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simon12

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I think you are missing the point that the samples are only free to people who have paid money. If the course was free as well (and nothing was charged for) or the free alcohol was there for the general public who had not paid for a course then no license would be needed. I am not trying to fabricate difficulties and stand but my original advice "What I suggest is to contact the licensing authority and tell them what you want to do and if there happy you don't need a license get that in writing."
 

nige

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No I'm not Simon, the course and free takeaway samples are separate. They only pay for the lesson, knowledge. A lesson plan is individual and its up to him what he chooses to hand out for free. Sometimes you just open an unnecessary can of worms, what's the point, would you complain your tutor handed you a sample that supports his lesson.
 

Pavros

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Nige, you repeatedly keep missing the point people are making.

The 'gift' of alcohol is a supply dependent on people paying for a course from a commercial enterprise. This means it is linked to a business transaction. It is not the same as me (a private individual) giving a bottle of homebrew to my brother. HMRC would link these transactions and not treat them separately as your example is a fabricated scenario which potentially circumvents licencing regulations or avoids payment of duty. It would depend on the volumes as to whether this comes under any of the exemptions, which is why members are suggesting contacting HMRC to ask.

This is NOT the same as a restaurant offering free poppadoms. These are supplied in the normal course of it's business and covered by the food licence it already has and included in it's accounts as a cost of business. It is not the same as the supply of alcohol which requires a separate licence.

You also keep mentioning that you don't pay tax if you make a loss. This is completely different and in this case irrelevant as we are talking about licencing / duty being payable not income or corporation tax on profits.

I don't know how someone with the business knowledge you profess to have, does not know the difference.
 
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