Liquid Yeast - am I missing something?

[clib]

I love witbier and would love to give this a go, but I currently have about 4 other wheat yeasts sitting my fridge . I think yeast is my favourite ingredient to play around with.

Yeah definitely, dry yeasts are getting better and I do hope dry becomes equal to yeast in both quantity and quality.

I've also read MJ yeasts are repackaged but as you say, it's just something I've read in forums with no hard evidence. I'd imagine the manufacturers themselves keep traceability records but they don't need to show this to consumers. I do have mixed feelings about this: on one hand a company who can buy a product in bulk and then sell it on is doing business, nothing wrong with that; but dressing it up as their own product with no added value feels a bit dodgy.

I will also add the caveat that at the end of the day I don't really care too much

I think with a lot of the MJ range there actually is added value because I think MJ takes individual dry yeasts and works out how to create something different and maybe improve them. For example I see no direct comparison with M36. I reckon it is probably a blend of two strains. Likewise, I have used M31 and M41 and see no direct comparison. I could be wrong there, just going off personal experience, but I am sure some of the MJ yeast packets contain more than one thing and do not simply replicate what others are selling. MJ people never come clean but they imply that they are creating new products and evidence suggests they are, in some cases at least.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've also read MJ yeasts are repackaged but as you say, it's just something I've read in forums with no hard evidence.

I'd imagine the manufacturers themselves keep traceability records but they don't need to show this to consumers. I do have mixed feelings about this: on one hand a company who can buy a product in bulk and then sell it on is doing business, nothing wrong with that; but dressing it up as their own product with no added value feels a bit dodgy.

I will also add the caveat that at the end of the day I don't really care too much

It is dodgy. But also, if it saves me a couple bucks, I'm not against it either.

Cheers.

 

[MickDundee]

I think with a lot of the MJ range there actually is added value because I think MJ takes individual dry yeasts and works out how to create something different and maybe improve them. For example I see no direct comparison with M36. I reckon it is probably a blend of two strains. Likewise, I have used M31 and M41 and see no direct comparison. I could be wrong there, just going off personal experience, but I am sure some of the MJ yeast packets contain more than one thing and do not simply replicate what others are selling. MJ people never come clean but they imply that they are creating new products and evidence suggests they are, in some cases at least.

I’d read somewhere (possibly on these forums but it might have been Facebook or something) that there’s speculation that M36 is a blend of Windsor/Notty/S-04 but that’s probably completely wide of the mark.

 

[Sadfield]

but dressing it up as their own product with no added value feels a bit dodgy.

is dodgy. But also, if it saves me a couple bucks, I'm not against it either.

This is the value being added, they are taking the packaging out of the suppliers hands and doing it cheaper.

The more important question is at what cost. MJ I don't have an issue with and agree with @clib that they offer something new. There's others though that make me question whether that cost is to the detriment of Quality Assurance.

 

[dmtaylor]

I’d read somewhere (possibly on these forums but it might have been Facebook or something) that there’s speculation that M36 is a blend of Windsor/Notty/S-04 but that’s probably completely wide of the mark.

It could be. I've heard theories like this many times, and starting to think it could really be. Probably not the S-04 (as it's Fermentis, and almost the same as Notty anyway), but at least the Windsor/Notty combo. Either that, or maybe it really *is* *just* S-04? Another theory of mine. More experiments will be needed.

 

[clib]

I’d read somewhere (possibly on these forums but it might have been Facebook or something) that there’s speculation that M36 is a blend of Windsor/Notty/S-04 but that’s probably completely wide of the mark.

I've used M36 a number of times and for me there is a very flocculent strain and another powdery strain. Something like Notty and Windsor makes sense, it's a commonly used combination in British breweries apparently. And they apparently came from the same brewery multi-strain (a Lallemeand employee once put this in a response to a question from a brewer), along with the London yeast and another strain that Lallemand currently doesn't produce and sell. A 4 strain yeast that Lallemand now sells three of, separately.

 

[marshbrewer]

Either that, or maybe it really *is* *just* S-04? Another theory of

I say this every time the discussion turns to Liberty Bell being S04, and I'll probably end up with egg on my face, but it was my house yeast for ages and I really don't think it is. S04 gives the resulting beer a sort of tartness that I am super sensitive too, I can even detect it in commercial small brewers beer who use it, and I get none of that in LB. Also, LB smells lovely and fruity when it's fermenting, whereas S04 smells bready.

 

[Sadfield]

I say this every time the discussion turns to Liberty Bell being S04, and I'll probably end up with egg on my face, but it was my house yeast for ages and I really don't think it is. S04 gives the resulting beer a sort of tartness that I am super sensitive too, I can even detect it in commercial small brewers beer who use it, and I get none of that in LB. Also, LB smells lovely and fruity when it's fermenting, whereas S04 smells bready.

100% on this, especially the tart note from S-04. I do love eggs though.

 

[clib]

I say this every time the discussion turns to Liberty Bell being S04, and I'll probably end up with egg on my face, but it was my house yeast for ages and I really don't think it is. S04 gives the resulting beer a sort of tartness that I am super sensitive too, I can even detect it in commercial small brewers beer who use it, and I get none of that in LB. Also, LB smells lovely and fruity when it's fermenting, whereas S04 smells bready.

I'm with you, there's no way on earth that S-04 is M36. The idea needs to be dropped once and for all!

 

[MickDundee]

I say this every time the discussion turns to Liberty Bell being S04, and I'll probably end up with egg on my face, but it was my house yeast for ages and I really don't think it is. S04 gives the resulting beer a sort of tartness that I am super sensitive too, I can even detect it in commercial small brewers beer who use it, and I get none of that in LB. Also, LB smells lovely and fruity when it's fermenting, whereas S04 smells bready.

I can’t use S-04 because I don’t like that “tartness” and, like you I can pick it out in some commercial beers (I had an English Pale from a Virgin Wines gift box a couple of weeks back that had it).

 

[jceg316]

As I say, buying a product in bulk and selling it on, there's nothing wrong with that especially if it's cheaper. I've not bought any MJ yeast in a really long time so can't comment on how much it costs compared to the yeast's it might be based on. Also, blending yeasts is definitely adding value by creating something new.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I still can’t see Fermentis shipping pallet loads of dry yeast to Ellesmere Port to be packed and sold by a competitor. MJ are a New Zealand firm perhaps they buy from a local yeast manufacturer in NZ or Oz. Then ship in bulk to be packed in the selling market with local language.

 

[Sadfield]

I still can’t see Fermentis shipping pallet loads of dry yeast to Ellesmere Port to be packed and sold by a competitor. MJ are a New Zealand firm perhaps they buy from a local yeast manufacturer in NZ or Oz. Then ship in bulk to be packed in the selling market with local language.

There not a competitor if you've already sold your product to them and you don't sell direct to homebrewers anyway. They're your distributor.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

There not a competitor if you've already sold your product to them and you don't sell direct to homebrewers anyway. They're your distributor.

No you don’t rebrand to a distributor and that would cannibalise your own brand. Fermentis sell to Homebrew sellers like GEB etc as their own brand. Do you think Coca Cola would let someone else rebrand their products.

 

[MickDundee]

No you don’t rebrand to a distributor and that would cannibalise your own brand. Fermentis sell to Homebrew sellers like GEB etc as their own brand. Do you think Coca Cola would let someone else rebrand their products.

KP, Muller, Pataks and Ambrosia all do:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/3396...ets-and-what-you-could-save-by-switching/amp/

 

[Sadfield]

No you don’t rebrand to a distributor and that would cannibalise your own brand. Fermentis sell to Homebrew sellers like GEB etc as their own brand. Do you think Coca Cola would let someone else rebrand their products.

Research The Rahr Group, they own Bevie, Bsg and Bintani which all distribute Lallemand and Fermentis yeasts, yet own the Mangrove Jack brand. The illusion of choice.

 

[clib]

I can’t use S-04 because I don’t like that “tartness” and, like you I can pick it out in some commercial beers (I had an English Pale from a Virgin Wines gift box a couple of weeks back that had it).

I'm the same with S-04. However, somebody once sent me an APA made with S04 and it was really excellent, it had Citra hops in it and maybe another hop like Amarillo. Obviously the hops overcame the yeast thing and the beer had more body than a US05 beer. I think S04 now gets used a lot in NEIPAs. Makes sense to me.

 

[MrRook]

Dried yeast stores almost forever reliably; no starter required.

I brewed a pretty good bitter late last year with Muntons dated Nov 2016.

 

[moto748]

I did a thread a while ago where I split a batch between S-04 and Liberty Bell. I think I can say confidently that they are not the same.

I've got a packet of T-58 in my cupboard. I might have bought it by mistake, the pack is a bit like US 05. Can I find a use for it? I thought it was mostly for Belgian-y saison type beers,isn't that right?

 

[clib]

I did a thread a while ago where I split a batch between S-04 and Liberty Bell. I think I can say confidently that they are not the same.

I've got a packet of T-58 in my cupboard. I might have bought it by mistake, the pack is a bit like US 05. Can I find a use for it? I thought it was mostly for Belgian-y saison type beers,isn't that right?

Yes it's distinctly Belgian. No getting round that. I've added a bit of it to English and American yeasts in hoppy beers and liked the results. It definitely has an effect on the hops.