Liquid yeast at last

[Ciaran12s]

Finally got my **** together and organised some liquid yeast ahead of Saturday's double brew day. I've went with WLP810 as I've done a couple of cali commons now and have been pleased with the results, it's possibly going to be a housebrew, and WLP644 as I'm doing a leftover IPA and this sounds quite interesting.

I've been pleased with the results of my beers this past while and I'm now very keen to see what kind of difference using the liquid yeasts will make. I am a little sceptical as a lot of people reckon there's no real difference in quality between liquid and dry.

I do 25l batches at 1.050 +- a couple of points and only ever pitch 1 dry pack which is an under pitch. Both packs are getting 2 × 1litre steps which gives an overpitch according to the calcs so hopefully that at least will make an improvement.

 

[Zephyr259]

Good luck, it you have a big enough flask build a 1.5l starter and store 500ml which can be kept in the fridge and rebuilt for the next batch. Don't know how different clean strains will be but you won't be able to get anything like the sacch trois in dry yeast. Have fun.

 

[Ciaran12s]

I would like to but my erlenmeyers are currently 1.5l coke bottles. I should have enough time to either split the first starter and make another 2l of each or add a 3rd step. I could wash it but I dump everything from the kettle (hops are spidered) so i end with quite a lot of trub.

 

[AdeDunn]

The difference between liquid yeast and dry depends entirely on the yeast you are using.

I've only used one liquid yeast so far, as to be honest I haven't needed to use another as it's just been so good. That yeast been Sigmund's Voss Kveik from Yeast Bay. Prior to this I was a confirmed dried yeast user, and a huge fan of Mangrove Jack's Liberty Bell yeast. With the kveik though, the beer tastes good for sure, but also I can pour the entire bottle, as roughly as I want, and the beer in the glass is totally sediment free. This is without cold crashing or additional finings. With dried yeasts, no matter what brand etc I used, I also had to take care as unless I racked the beer to secondary for a week or so before transferring to the bottling bucket I'd ALWAYS get a bit of sediment that would try to transfer to my glass when pouring, requiring me to leave a bit of beer in the bottle. An advantage that will quickly vanish of course if anybody ever starts selling dried Voss Kveik (as Kveik CAN be dried, so it's only a matter of time I suppose... lol).

I haven't tried enough types of liquid yeast to compare fairly though beyond that to be honest. I don't have a fermentation fridge, so for me Kveik is THE perfect yeast. Pitching at 38/39 degrees C saves me water when I'm cooling the wort too... Then there's how you under-pitch it, meaning even when you make a starter, you have more that you can keep back for future brews... One day I'll finally get my fermentation fridge, and try more liquid yeasts, until that day, Kveik is my go to for the majority of my beers, my house yeast if you will. My house beer style has become porters for the colder months, in the summer it's usually golden ales/Saisons, which Kveik can be used for too....

 

[Ciaran12s]

So you're using kveik in everything more or less then? I'll maybe give that a bash some time. Sounds handy for summer, saves worrying about fermentation temperature and that last 20 degrees cooling takes the longest.

I've had mixed results with flocculancy so far. I wasn't impressed with either crossmyloof ale yeasts for flocculation or flavour but that was a common problem among several packets and a batch of grain so I can't confirm the yeast was contributing to that flavour. It wasn't that bad, there was just something there, can't really describe it.

MJ's cali common sticks like glue! As does S-04 I've found.

I got those packs from the maltmiller. The order was placed 7/11/18 arriving 9/11/18. They both had manufacture dates of early September. Is that about right for most stockists? Is there a bit of luck involved with getting fresher packs?

 

[foxbat]

They both had manufacture dates of early September. Is that about right for most stockists? Is there a bit of luck involved with getting fresher packs?

Two months is pretty good. I've had anything from a month to 6 months and never had any problems building a starter from them. And if you overbuild then you've got a jar 0 months old right there tempting you to brew again!

Some shops have started putting manufacturing dates on their liquid yeast ads. The malt miller has it on some and the-home-brew-shop also does.

 

[dan125]

Its well worth having a look at the Imperial yeasts. They are bit more expensive than other liquid yeasts but with about double the cell count of others, I haven't made a starter since I began using them.
I use the pack as it comes in a low ABV beer (28L at approx 1.040) then save and re-use some in subsequent brews.
If you re-use just a couple of times its not much more expensive than dried yeast and without any time/money spent on starters

 

[marshbrewer]

Do you use yeast from the trub, or top crop Dan?

 

[dan125]

Do you use yeast from the trub, or top crop Dan?

I save whatever settles in the collection bottle of the Fermentasaurus, but I always ditch the 1st bottle as I reckon this contains most of the trub and dead yeast cells, and save the 2nd or 3rd bottle.
I keep the bottle in the fridge and pitch the whole lot into the next brew within a week or two of harvesting

 

[Hoddy]

Its well worth having a look at the Imperial yeasts. They are bit more expensive than other liquid yeasts but with about double the cell count of others, I haven't made a starter since I began using them.
I use the pack as it comes in a low ABV beer (28L at approx 1.040) then save and re-use some in subsequent brews.
If you re-use just a couple of times its not much more expensive than dried yeast and without any time/money spent on starters

He’s right. I picked up a 1318 London Ale III today at THBS as I was passing and I’m making my fav Porter this weekend. It was £6.95 for a pack and it’s mnfg date is only 25th Oct so I most likely won’t bother making a starter.

But the imperial are only a few quid more. And once you split it and reuse it a few times (I had to buy a new pack of 1318 as my harvested yeast I’ve used many many times did cope well and it was 9 months old in the fridge) you’ll be at the price of a pack of dry yeast in 3/4 brews. And the flavour profiles are so much nicer and the variety is so good with most liquid yeasts.

 

[dan125]

Do you use yeast from the trub, or top crop Dan?

I should add that I haven't done this past generation 3, but by then I've had my money's worth out of it and am ready for a change. I'm sure it'd work just as well by re-using some of the yeast cake from a bucket or other FV - maybe more difficult if you're dry hopping in the FV though

 

[trueblue]

The best way to get value from liquid yeast is when you get the yeast make a starter and ferment out, Then split into small containers, depend on the date on the pack I split into 5 or 6. Store in the fridge and make up a fresh starter a few days before you brew. Six brews from one pack just over a £1 per brew. I have one brewer friend who steps up the first start then splits into ten but I have not been brave enough to try this, The splits will last in the fridge at least months probably more.

 

[Ciaran12s]

I am quite excited to get a taste of a brew made with liquid yeast, these batches will be bottled ~15th December, so ready for sampling on Christmas day perhaps! A tad early, saying that I'm sampling my recent oatmeal stout and red ryePA, both bottled less than 2 weeks ago and they're delicious. The stout will benefit with a few more weeks though.

I'm not too bothered about costs at the minute, I want to try it out and see if there's an improvement in the product, if so I'll stick with the liquid varieties and get "proper" in to overbuilding and storage and all that good stuff.

I've been away on a course the past couple of days and I think overbuilding in time for Saturday will be a push so the aim is to wash both of these out after bottling and use again. I won't be brewing again until February unfortunately! I'm approaching critical mass which is good and have too much on over Christmas so it suits ok. I'll keep the washed yeasts fridged and build them up prior to pitching in February, that's the plan as it stand anyway.

 

[AdeDunn]

So you're using kveik in everything more or less then? I'll maybe give that a bash some time. Sounds handy for summer, saves worrying about fermentation temperature and that last 20 degrees cooling takes the longest.

I've had mixed results with flocculancy so far. I wasn't impressed with either crossmyloof ale yeasts for flocculation or flavour but that was a common problem among several packets and a batch of grain so I can't confirm the yeast was contributing to that flavour. It wasn't that bad, there was just something there, can't really describe it.

MJ's cali common sticks like glue! As does S-04 I've found.

I got those packs from the maltmiller. The order was placed 7/11/18 arriving 9/11/18. They both had manufacture dates of early September. Is that about right for most stockists? Is there a bit of luck involved with getting fresher packs?

Yup, a few other folks on here are doing the same too, with good results.

Regarding CML yeasts. The real ale I found had what I could only describe as a sort of Belgiany flavour, sort of a bubblegum and cloves flavour that doesn't belong in a British beer overly. The US pale yeast I found had a tangy flavour, but that wasn't a huge problem, the fact the stuff never seems to drop out of suspension was though... lol

I've avoided SO4 to be honest, I've read a lot that much over 20 degrees C and it can start tasting unpleasant, and I often ferment at around 23 degrees C, 22 to 23 degrees C is kind of the minimum I can ferment at most of the time to be honest. That's why Kveik is just perfect for me, as at those sort of temps it ferments really cleanly, but whack it up to nearly 40 degrees and you get delicious esters, so it's win win with the stuff. My go to for British styles was usually MJ Liberty Bell, which is more than happy at 23 degrees C, and MOSTLY sticks to the bottle nicely, but you do get a tiny bit of sediment if you aren't careful. Saisons it was always MJ M29 French Saison, as the beer it produces is just so nice... lol The Belgian With I made with M21 is amazing, and sediment doesn't matter one bit as you actually rouse the yeast when serving, BUT it's a sod for pretending to be finished, then going a tiny bit more in the bottle... Good job I bottled in PET, and it just made the beer all the nicer.

 

[dan125]

I am quite excited to get a taste of a brew made with liquid yeast, these batches will be bottled ~15th December

That's quite a while to wait before bottling - what are you brewing?

 

[Ciaran12s]

That's quite a while to wait before bottling - what are you brewing?

I know, I work offshore so I brew the weekend before I leave and bottle when I get back. That's usually just under or around 4 weeks in the FV. If I tried to do it all while I was home I'd be rushing it a bit. It's a California common steam beer and an American IPA with leftover hops.