Little carbonation

[globe11123]

Hi guys,

I've done by first homebrew using the st peters ruby red ale kit. Bit of a learning curve because I think i messed up quite abit!(Bit too much water to start with)

I did the 7 day fermentation, then bottled it and waited 14 days and the results are a decent tasting ale but its got very little carbonation and goes flat instantly. There's abit of sediment in each bottle aswell.

When bottling I rinsed the bottles out with water and stuck them all in the oven to sanitise which probably isn't the correct method, I've seen now you can just rinse them with sanitiser. I put half a tea spoon of sugar in each of the 500ml bottles for priming.

I'm abit hesitant to do another batch with this having no carbonation, if I haven't explained anything in enough detail please ask.

Thanks

 

[Bernie]

7 days is a bit short for complete fermentation and 14 days isn't that long for carbonation. Did you check the final gravity to see if the fermentation had finished? Sometimes the fermentation sticks. Rather than lac of abrogation I'd be careful of bottle bombs in the weeks to come, especially, with the warm weather.

 

[globe11123]

7 days is a bit short for complete fermentation and 14 days isn't that long for carbonation. Did you check the final gravity to see if the fermentation had finished? Sometimes the fermentation sticks. Rather than lac of abrogation I'd be careful of bottle bombs in the weeks to come, especially, with the warm weather.

Was just following the instructions on the box, no sadly. I think it was 1030 but i never took the first reading because I rushed.

I've bought a coopers canadian blonde kit for the next one, but I'm a bit apprehensive to start considering how this has gone.

 

[globe11123]

I would like to add that I added maybe 2 liters too much water? As i miss read the instructions.

 

[Bernie]

Was just following the instructions on the box, no sadly. I think it was 1030 but i never took the first reading because I rushed.

I've bought a coopers canadian blonde kit for the next one, but I'm a bit apprehensive to start considering how this has gone.

1030 is high for a final gravity and the fermentation may not have finished. Do be careful when opening or handling the bottles.
Ive just made a St Peters Stout and sometimes the fermentation takes couple of days to get going. After transferring to a second barrel the fermentation started again and there's still very slow fermentation after 12 days.
I'm no expert but what helps starting fermentation is
1 Softening the dried yeast in water at 25 °C in about a quarter of a litre of water which you add to the fermenter when the hopped liquid malt is fully wittered with the water.
2 starting fermentation at 23 °C. Usually I do this by boiling 2 litres of water that I use to dissolve the liquid malt and become more in the fermenter then top up to 21 litres then add the yeast
3 Sometimes there's no bubbling because there a leak in the fermenter/airlock.
4 Test the final gravity (FG).

 

[globe11123]

1030 is high for a final gravity and the fermentation may not have finished. Do be careful when opening or handling the bottles.
Ive just made a St Peters Stout and sometimes the fermentation takes couple of days to get going. After transferring to a second barrel the fermentation started again and there's still very slow fermentation after 12 days.
I'm no expert but what helps starting fermentation is
1 Softening the dried yeast in water at 25 °C in about a quarter of a litre of water which you add to the fermenter when the hopped liquid malt is fully wittered with the water.
2 starting fermentation at 23 °C. Usually I do this by boiling 2 litres of water that I use to dissolve the liquid malt and become more in the fermenter then top up to 21 litres then add the yeast
3 Sometimes there's no bubbling because there a leak in the fermenter/airlock.
4 Test the final gravity (FG).

Thanks, will take these into account for next batch. Just trying to cancel things out to make sure this doesn't happen again. Next brew is canadian blonde so its vital it has some sort of fizz.

Also currently I only have access to one bucket to do the fermentation and the bottling from.

I can only think its my tap water, adding too much water to the fermenter?

Do i leave it in the bottles longer or just get rid of it?

 

[Bernie]

Do i leave it in the bottles longer or just get rid of it?

Was the first bottle drinkable? If so rather than chucking it drink it and have fun when the bottles you open are too gassy.

 

[terrym]

Thanks, will take these into account for next batch. Just trying to cancel things out to make sure this doesn't happen again. Next brew is canadian blonde so its vital it has some sort of fizz.

Also currently I only have access to one bucket to do the fermentation and the bottling from.

I can only think its my tap water, adding too much water to the fermenter?

Do i leave it in the bottles longer or just get rid of it?

First I suggest you read this, which you mind find of use, certainly for your next beer.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...de-to-brewing-your-own-beer-from-a-kit.57526/Next, 7 days to complete a fermentation is OK, but its is better to leave it longer, 14 days is a good start for 'newbies' . And if you do choose to bottle early you should be guided by your hydrometer (see the relevant words in the link above)
And 14 days to carb up should be more than enough. I have beers which are fully carbed after as little as 5 days, never more than 10 days. (I know because I mostly use PET bottles). And the quantity of priming sugar you used is fine, in fact I use slightly less for most of my beers.
However. What you haven't told us is the temperature you had for the primary fermentation and next the carbonation stage. Ideally you need about 20*C for both. If you fermented at lower than about 18*C it might have finished early, and if you did the same for carbonation the yeast may not have had time to do its job.
So my first question to is what temperature have you used, and second how many packets of yeast were there in this kit, and how much was in them 6g or more, because that may help in identifying another problem?

 

[globe11123]

Was the first bottle drinkable? If so rather than chucking it drink it and have fun when the bottles you open are too gassy.

First bottle tasted OK but was too flat to drink, opened another my dad tried it and he didn't like the taste. It felt quite weak in alcohol and didn't taste right, no bad odors. Lots of sediment in the bottle.

I might get cracking with the next one on Saturday and see if the bottled ones taste or are slightly more carbonated in a week and a half time and decide to throw away or not.

With priming, its fine to use normal sugar? I did 3/4 of a teaspoon per 600ml bottle (san miguel ones) and half a teaspoon per pint bottle. If not ill invest in some carbonation drops.

 

[globe11123]

First I suggest you read this, which you mind find of use, certainly for your next beer.
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/...de-to-brewing-your-own-beer-from-a-kit.57526/Next, 7 days to complete a fermentation is OK, but its is better to leave it longer, 14 days is a good start for 'newbies' . And if you do choose to bottle early you should be guided by your hydrometer (see the relevant words in the link above)
And 14 days to carb up should be more than enough. I have beers which are fully carbed after as little as 5 days, never more than 10 days. (I know because I mostly use PET bottles). And the quantity of priming sugar you used is fine, in fact I use slightly less for most of my beers.
However. What you haven't told us is the temperature you had for the primary fermentation and next the carbonation stage. Ideally you need about 20*C for both. If you fermented at lower than about 18*C it might have finished early, and if you did the same for carbonation the yeast may not have had time to do its job.
So my first question to is what temperature have you used, and second how many packets of yeast were there in this kit, and how much was in them 6g or more, because that may help in identifying another problem?

Thanks for the time to respond.

I can't give an accurate temp as I've only just put a thermometer in the room, its an upstairs room which i will be able to get the median temperature without the heating on later.

The heating was on full blast one day when fermentation properly kicked off, as there was abit more water than required in there quite a bit of it came through the airlock. I've turned the heating off in that room now just incase it was that. Was only 1 packet of yeast in the brew kit not sure of amount but i didn't add anymore.

 

[terrym]

Thanks for the time to respond.

I can't give an accurate temp as I've only just put a thermometer in the room, its an upstairs room which i will be able to get the median temperature without the heating on later.

The heating was on full blast one day when fermentation properly kicked off, as there was abit more water than required in there quite a bit of it came through the airlock. I've turned the heating off in that room now just incase it was that. Was only 1 packet of yeast in the brew kit not sure of amount but i didn't add anymore.

First thing. Carb drops are a waste of money, Table sugar is fine, it's predictable and cheap. There is nothing wrong with your priming rates with the sugar, and you should in theory have adequately carbed beer.
Next I would move a few of your bottles into a warm area for a few days to carb up . However for the time being I would keep the others in a cool place. And the reason for this is that your fermentation may have 'stuck' i.e the yeast gave up early, and there was lots of unfermented sugars left in your beer when you bottled it. One packet of possibly only 6g yeast and an FG of maybe 1.030 are my reasons for saying that. So with the bottles you have moved into a warm place, place them in a fridge before opening, and open outside as a precaution. If the main fermentation has restarted in the bottles you will have ended up with 'gushers', hence the precautions. But if they are carbed up as expected you can then move the other bottles into the warm. More on stuck fermentations here
Simple strategies for dealing with stuck fermentations
And in general homebrew beer is rarely anything better than just drinkable two weeks after bottling, and the darker the beer the more that applies. You really need to leave it at least a month, that;s 2 weeks in carbing and two weeks in conditioning.
Finally with the stuff you read about in the link I posted earlier you should get a better result with the Coopers Canadian Blond. When I did your St Peters kit it turned out to be one of the worst beers I have ever brewed, certainly in the last 100 I have done, although who's not to say yours may turn out OK in the end.

 

[globe11123]

First thing. Carb drops are a waste of money, Table sugar is fine, it's predictable and cheap. There is nothing wrong with your priming rates with the sugar, and you should in theory have adequately carbed beer.
Next I would move a few of your bottles into a warm area for a few days to carb up . However for the time being I would keep the others in a cool place. And the reason for this is that your fermentation may have 'stuck' i.e the yeast gave up early, and there was lots of unfermented sugars left in your beer when you bottled it. One packet of possibly only 6g yeast and an FG of maybe 1.030 are my reasons for saying that. So with the bottles you have moved into a warm place, place them in a fridge before opening, and open outside as a precaution. If the main carbonation has restarted in the bottles you will have ended up with 'gushers', hence the precautions. But if they are carbed up as expected you can then move the other bottles into the warm. More on stuck fermentations here
Simple strategies for dealing with stuck fermentations
And in general homebrew beer is rarely anything better than just drinkable two weeks after bottling, and the darker the beer the more that applies. You really need to leave it at least a month, that;s 2 weeks in carbing and two weeks in conditioning.
Finally with the stuff you read about in the link I posted earlier you should get a better result with the Coopers Canadian Blond. When I did your St Peters kit it turned out to be one of the worst beers I have ever brewed, certainly in the last 100 I have done, although who's not to say yours may turn out OK in the end.

Ah good so theres no need to waste money on them. The room temperature is currently on 23.3C in the room i fermented, heating was on before but ive set it to not come on anymore will see what it reads tomorrow without it.

*I put the bottles back in that room straight after bottling for 2 days then into a shed for the last 12 days.

I've read up on our water, it is soft water so that's fine to use with brewing, so really it must be done to me either adding a few too many liters of water, the heat in the room or my bottling process?

Appreciate your time for troubleshooting.

 

[terrym]

If you drink your tap water without a second thought it's OK for brewing kits, whether its hard or soft or anything in between. But if it smells and tastes a bit 'funny', especially a TCP type taste, you might need to consider treating it with campden tabs or using cheap supermarket bottled water. But the water you have used on this kit is unlikely to have caused the problems you seem to have, and the same goes for a little extra water. Water types and water treatment only really become important when you are using grain to brew beer.
Next if you only put your bottles in a warm room to carb up for 2 days that is simply not long enough so you need to get some back into the warm (but see what I said about taking precautions on potential 'gushers') .
And 23*C to carb up beers is not a problem although it is a bit too warm for the primary fermentation, a steady 19-20*Cish is better for that (unless you are brewing lagers)

 

[globe11123]

I think the usual temp with no heating will be around 21-22C, would it be worth bringing all bottles back in? I noticed there is abit of sedament in each of them? Are the bottles meant to be turned at all within the bottling process?

From reading your guide, the krausen was definitely gone when i went to bottle. I lost quite abit of the krausen in day 2-3 as the lid wasn't quite tight enough, around the same time i spotted the heating was on. As it was coming out of the airlock I took abit of the liquid out too, maybe 700ml?

 

[terrym]

I think the usual temp with no heating will be around 21-22C, would it be worth bringing all bottles back in? I noticed there is abit of sedament in each of them? Are the bottles meant to be turned at all within the bottling process?

From reading your guide, the krausen was definitely gone when i went to bottle. I lost quite abit of the krausen in day 2-3 as the lid wasn't quite tight enough, around the same time i spotted the heating was on. As it was coming out of the airlock I took abit of the liquid out too, maybe 700ml?

Please read again what I said about only bringing in some of the bottles - which you need to do to carb up your beer - due to the chance of a stuck fermentation, and the possibility of gushers (however slight) given your comment about the SG at 1.030. However whether you bring the lot in and chance it is your decision, you might be OK, you might not.
As far as sediment is concerned you will avoid a heavy sediment layer in the bottles by leaving your beer in the FV for longer. At 7 days most beers in the FV will still be pretty murky but at 14 days they will have pretty much cleared, since the yeast has finished its job and settled, although there will still be enough present in suspension to carb up, it might take a few days longer that's all, but you will end up with more clear beer in your glass at serving time, since you can leave less behind in the bottle. The objective of this is to leave the vast majority of the yeast in the FV and not allow much of it to carry forward into you bottles, and even less so into your glass.

 

[terrym]

PS
There is no need to turn the bottles after filling, priming and capping. Just store upright to allow the yeast to do its job then settle out. That said I sometimes gently roll bottles on their side after they have ben sealed off to help dissolve the priming sugar.

 

[globe11123]

Ok, these have definitely settled so would it be possible for them to secondary ferment still?

Going to bring up the bottles tomorrow, and just leave them until this new batch is ready to be bottled. Hopefully will have a lot more spare glass then too.

 

[terrym]

Ok, these have definitely settled so would it be possible for them to secondary ferment still?

Going to bring up the bottles tomorrow, and just leave them until this new batch is ready to be bottled. Hopefully will have a lot more spare glass then too.

It wont do any harm to turn the bottles from your first batch to redistribute the yeast so that it can quickly get on with carbing up as your beer warms up again. Once should be enough. The yeast will resettle when its done. Normally this is unnecessary.
If any of your bottles are PET you should be able to monitor how the carbonation is progressing, since they will slowly harden as the priming sugar gets converted. And if PET bottles go execeptionally hard that is a sign that the beer inside is highly carbed and may foam when opened, hence 'gushers'. Obviously glass can't give you that indication. I use mostly PET that's how I know how long it takes to carb up my beers.

 

[globe11123]

I'm using glass bottles varying in sizes from 500ml to 660ml and capping them.

Moved them upstairs, turned them and placed them in an open box - radiator is off!

Definitely feeling a bit more positive now for the next batch, will be following your link to the nth degree. Again thank you for your help.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Hi guys,

I've done by first homebrew using the st peters ruby red ale kit. Bit of a learning curve because I think i messed up quite abit!(Bit too much water to start with)

I did the 7 day fermentation, then bottled it and waited 14 days and the results are a decent tasting ale but its got very little carbonation and goes flat instantly. There's abit of sediment in each bottle aswell.

When bottling I rinsed the bottles out with water and stuck them all in the oven to sanitise which probably isn't the correct method, I've seen now you can just rinse them with sanitiser. I put half a tea spoon of sugar in each of the 500ml bottles for priming.

I'm abit hesitant to do another batch with this having no carbonation, if I haven't explained anything in enough detail please ask.

Thanks

as long as there's no deposits in the bottle once rinsed using an oven is fine. cover the tops with foil cling film or I re-use old bottle tops that i've star san'd

re: carbonation I used about 140g for 20l which is 7g for a 500ml bottle. Did you keep the bottles around 20c for the 14days? use at least 1 plastic fizzy drink bottle when that turns rock hard your beer has carbonated - if it bulges you are at risk of over carbination - bottle bombs