My beers keep getting infected

[jceg316]

My beers keep getting infected and it's really annoying. Each time I can can kind of work out why, but there's something new every time, and it seems if something can get infected it will and it can be hard to shake.

What is a good steriliser? I've noticed starsan doesn't seem to kill all bacteria and yeasts and after thoroughly rinsing my FVs in it, I still get infections, or twice now the beer started fermenting on its own without me adding yeast. I don't want to bleach every time I brew as it's not great for the environment and requires a lot of rinsing afterwards.

How much of a detriment is hard water on Starsan? I have very hard water where I am and this is what I use to mix the solution.

 

[Alside101]

Get a bottle of ashbeck from tesco and use it for star san. Run us through your typical brewday

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Do you use a wort chiller? I got a lot of post boil infection until I made one.

 

[samale]

My beers keep getting infected and it's really annoying. Each time I can can kind of work out why, but there's something new every time, and it seems if something can get infected it will and it can be hard to shake.

What is a good steriliser? I've noticed starsan doesn't seem to kill all bacteria and yeasts and after thoroughly rinsing my FVs in it, I still get infections, or twice now the beer started fermenting on its own without me adding yeast. I don't want to bleach every time I brew as it's not great for the environment and requires a lot of rinsing afterwards.

How much of a detriment is hard water on Starsan? I have very hard water where I am and this is what I use to mix the solution.

I use bleach for cleaning in small amounts then give it a good rinse out. Then it gets a once over with a no rinse sterilising solution.

 

[samale]

Do you use a wort chiller? I got a lot of post boil infection until I made one.

I use a no chill method and I think a good few others do the same. I have never owned a chiller

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Make one 10 m copper coil £20 ish and a pipe bender.

 

[The Baron]

Sounds to me like a deep infection embedded in the FV. I would buy a new one and used bottled water on the next brew and see how that goes

 

[The Baron]

I also no chill and have done for quite a while and have never had a infection I do not believe chilling is safer than no chill as you have the wort exposed whilst using a chiller and can possibly get airborne wild yeasts in it whilst with no chill you are transferring the hot sterile wort into a cube that will be sanitised with the heat of the wort and squeezed to remove any air in the cube.

 

[Gerryjo]

Does your fermenter have a tap and if so remove and thoroughly clean oxyclean and soak the lot in Milton fluid.I would also check your transfer hoses if doing partial mash or AG.

 

[jceg316]

Get a bottle of ashbeck from tesco and use it for star san. Run us through your typical brewday

I will do for my next brew. How long does it last when made up with this water?

Typical Brewday

I have a Grainfather and my brew method is nothing out the ordinary. When I cool the wort after the boil I run the boiling wort through the chiller for 10 mins, as recommended by GF. I do notice that sometimes the wort stops pumping through after a while. I don't know why this is. I turn the pump off for a few seconds, turn it on again and it works. The chiller remains very hot during this time, I'm guessing 80c+ hot.

I fill my fermenter with ~5l of starsan solution and rinse it round. I pick up the FV, rotate it a number of times so Starsan has been on all surfaces, hold it upside down for a bit. Empty the starsan just before transferring the cooled wort.

Once filled with wort, I put the fv in my fridge where I let the temperature stabilise to pitching temp, sometimes this can be left overnight. I pitch the wort. I have a spray made up of starsan which lasts me a month before it's empty and I spray the yeast receptacle and FV lid. I then leave it. If my fridge is full I'll pitch the yeast straight away and leave the fv somewhere.

Bottling Day

Each bottle I rinse until clean, I might miss one or two sometimes. I also try and heat sterilise in the oven before brewday but can't always do this for every bottle. I put them in the oven at ~110C for 20mins (including preheat).

I have one of those bottle rinsers I fill with starsan and rinse each bottle with 3 sprays. I put my caps in there too. Leave the bottles on a bottle tree.

I pour boiling water on sugar and stir, Spray starsan on the mug and pour it into the FV (I bottle straight from my conical FV). I spray a large plastic spoon with starsan and gently stir the sugar in.

I have a stainless steel bottling wand I put in the oven along with small cuts of silicone hosing, take them out the oven and dunk into a bucket of starsan and leave it there until I'm ready to bottle. My FV has a tap I spray with starsan before connecting this up.

Bottle the beers and put a cap on the top straight from starsan then seal.

Please let me know if I've missed anything or you would like any more detail on the process.

 

[jceg316]

Sounds to me like a deep infection embedded in the FV. I would buy a new one and used bottled water on the next brew and see how that goes

I use glass and stainless steel. Is it possible to get something so bad in these? Something I'll try is pouring boiling water over my SS vessel and I might have to bleach the glass ones.

Does your fermenter have a tap and if so remove and thoroughly clean oxyclean and soak the lot in Milton fluid.I would also check your transfer hoses if doing partial mash or AG.

SS (the company) don't recommend using oxy cleaners on their equipment which is pretty annoying, that stuff is a great cleaner otherwise.

 

[The Baron]

I know its a long shot but could the infection be in the fridge you are fermenting in maybe a good clean and sanitise of this might eradicate one more reason, I know it can be a hard battle to resolve issues like this so do not discount anything that may harbour infections. Keep us updated and let us know if you solve it

 

[foxbat]

Split a batch between your SS FV and a couple of demijohns. Bottle the DJs separately and note which bottles they went into. If they all get infected then your culprit is the chiller or something that feeds in or out of it. If not, you'll know if it's an FV, DJ, bottles etc.

 

[jceg316]

Infections happen in my glass demis more than my SS. The last beer I put in the SS fermenter started fermenting on its own.

 

[jceg316]

I have these questions currently:

How can I nuke all living things from my glass, stainless steel, silicon and plastic? I'd imagine it will be different for each material.
How well does starsan work with hard water?
Would pouring boiling water from my kettle over the walls of my SS fermenter get rid of anything living or would this not be effective enough?

 

[JonBrew]

Based on the run down you've give my bet would be it's your chiller. Is it a CF or plate chiller? I've heard many time that, in commercial breweries, if they get an infection it's often in their wort chiller. It's why on a homebrew level your best to stick with immersion chillers as they're much easier to clean.

In terms of generally purging your system, you could try switching to an iodine based steriliser. I recently picked up Five Star one as StarSan is currently unavailable. I've not used it yet but I believe it's meant to be much better at killing wild yeast. It's also suitable for stainless steel.

For plastics I'd go with the same or bleach but make sure you rinse it like flip to get rid of any trace. Hot caustic is another option.

Another issue you might have to consider is the environment you brew in. For example, if you brew in your kitchen and do a lot of home baking and are working with flour etc, you're possible more at risk of wild yeast infection.

Another thing, do you know what kind of infection you have? What does the infected beer taste/smell like etc? Are you getting a pellicle form? The treatment might depend on the type of infection.

 

[jceg316]

Based on the run down you've give my bet would be it's your chiller.

I use a counterflow chiller as this is what comes with the GF. I can sterilise it by running boiling water through it for 10 mins.

 

[Sadfield]

@jceg316 Just to check I've got this right, you have a Stainless fermenter that you clean with Bleach then sanitise with Starsan?

Non-caustic Oxy is fine for Stainless as are caustic cleaners, Ssbrewtech recommended PBW, which is Sodium Percarbonate Oxycleaner. Bleach and Chlorine based detergents are corrosive to stainless.

 

[jceg316]

@jceg316 Just to check I've got this right, you have a Stainless fermenter that you clean with Bleach then sanitise with Starsan?

No, I only sanitise with starsan. I don't think it's recommended to use bleach on stainless steel. I'd rather not use bleach if possible.

 

[Gerryjo]

I have these questions currently:

How can I nuke all living things from my glass, stainless steel, silicon and plastic? I'd imagine it will be different for each material.
How well does starsan work with hard water?
Would pouring boiling water from my kettle over the walls of my SS fermenter get rid of anything living or would this not be effective enough?

Starsan is only a sanitiser and not a steriliser so if you have an embedded infection starsan will not get rid of it.