New World Saison - why so malty?

[-Bezza-]

I brewed the Young's New World Saison about 5 weeks ago - 2 weeks fermenting, a couple of days cold crashing then 3 weeks in the keg and it's just tasting really, really malty and tastes a lot thicker than it's FG would suggest - think it was around 1.005. Very little hop flavour coming through and not clearing up a quick as other beers have done in the past.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this?

Not unpleasant to drink as such, so will leave it conditioning for longer, but just not anywhere near to what I expected.

 

[Covrich]

Sounds a little odd especially since its a saison

What temp did you ferment at?

 

[-Bezza-]

Sounds a little odd especially since its a saison

What temp did you ferment at?

Notes are at home but it was around 30.

 

[Covrich]

Well that bit sounds alright, I never made the kit so not sure why it would be malty has anyone else made this kit? maybe a bit of conditioning will sort it like you said

 

[Clint]

I've done it and thought it was similar to BrewDog electric India.

 

[joel]

I take it you put the dry hops in? At what stage did you add them?

 

[steve denholm]

Me and Clint have both brewed this one too, he liked it I still have 3 bottle left a year later (that's a first ever for me), I think it's maybe the style that I didn't like as with Electric India I loved the first few bottles then suddenly decided it wasn't from me :)

 

[-Bezza-]

I take it you put the dry hops in? At what stage did you add them?

About 3 days before kegging. Did them in a mesh bag, weighed down with spoons.

The kit was about a year old, if that matters, but I replaced the yeast with a fresher MJ French Saison.

Guess we'll just have to see where it goes from here but it's confusing me why it tastes like it does. Perhaps I'll just make sure it's not infected, let it condition out for a few more weeks, and label it up as "Malt lager" or similar.

 

[-Bezza-]

Tasted again over the weekend and it's really not good. Still not tasting anything "off" but the level of malt flavour is getting unbearable.

Could old hops in the dry hop have created these sorts of flavours?

 

[Covrich]

I wouldn;t have thought so because the hops them self are antibacterial, I assume the spoons and the bag were sanitised though?

Do you think it is getting worse?? never tried this like I say, but Saisons are funky beers for sure, an acquired taste. I assume you liek saisons? to some of us they are fruity and peppery, funky maybe tart ect and we love them, to others they are like drinking the liquid straw from a horses stable

 

[joel]

Old hops can simply lack flavour, or can taste cheesy or soapy, or like old cut grass. If it's old hops the flavour may improve after leaving it for a couple of months an the dry hop flavour will fade away. I had an infection last year where it took a while to develop but the first symptom was a drop off of hop flavours. If it's an infection it'll just get worse. I've used MJ French Saison and I wasn't quite so keen while the beer was young, tasted like rough green apples and pepper, but it was really good after 6 months, crisp, dry and a bit fruity.

 

[-Bezza-]

Thanks gents.

When I say it's not tasting "off", I mean there's nothing in there that tastes harmful or unnatural or not beery. That leads me to believe it's not to do with sanitisation, although possibly incorrectly. But I've read through the whole list of infections and what sort of flavours they can throw up and nothing fits the bill.

I've tried saisons before and never had any issue with the flavour. What I have is just sooooo far removed from a saison, I don't know what it is. I can't stress just how strong the flavour is - it would be like ordering a korma and getting a madras, really big and strong flavour so not just getting a hint of something I'm not keen on.

Still happy to sit this one out. I don't have anything else to do with the corny at the moment so no harm in keeping the beer in there.

 

[-Bezza-]

Hmm, so just tasted the hefe Weiss all grain I made a few weeks back. It's been in the keg about 4 days.

Tastes like I would expect initially but then about 2 seconds after the sweet erdinger taste, in comes a toasty malt flavour that lingers a little. Not unpleasant but wasn't expecting it there and the beer is still very young (the maltiness in the saison seemed to develop a bit with time).

So, assuming there is something going on here, it's not a kit vs ag thing.

Water can make malt dominate. But didn't have this problem with the last few brews. Also, think that wouldn't affect kits.

Possibly coincides with getting kegs. But I have a stout in another keg which doesn't seem to have the same problem.

Also coincides with mixing up a fresh batch of star San, which I have just various tubes and jugs submerged in. Something there?

I'm baffled.

 

[-Bezza-]

Just a quick update for those that are interested.

The Hefeweiss turned out fantastic - the malt flavour was just because the beer was so young and conditioned out after 2 or 3 days.

Had a little taste of the NWS last night and the maltiness has conditioned out there too. Oddly, the beer that is left is a lot more bitter than I would expect - it's almost like an old APA where the dry hop has completely faded. Still, that was at room temperature (and it's been pretty hot) so should be a drinkable beer once it's been chilled down a bit. I guess I'll just be left a bit flummoxed as to how an extract kit could have suffered so much from something that is more relevant to AG.