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Brewnaldo

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25k a year with an actual, practical degree qualification is ***** money.

Nurses are not "lucky" to have a job or job security.

Nurses should of course fight for what they believe is an acceptable rise.

I think all of the above are obviously true....

That said, I actually think a pay rise might not be the best (although of course it helps) response to the last year. Instead* their unions should be pushing for better working conditions to ensure they dont ever take a battering like that again.

Unfortunately, that would necessitate more nurses, and who is going to be inspired to take up nursing after they year they have had and the very public reward on offer for said year.

*not instead, aswell as....

Also, is it a Brotish phenomenon to steam In with an opinion on what other people should earn? This last year has exposed so much "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEE" sentiment in this country. As stated by someone else above, whoever you are, join a union and fight for what you think you deserve
 

chopps

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I really hope for them and all our sakes that strike action is not taken. I think the public’s appreciation of nurses and nursing may turn to anger and resentment if delays to the return from COVID are spun as their fault due to strike.
 

Cheshire Cat

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As ever the governments judgement is wrong and I think Boris will do another U turn.
 

Rodcx500z

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25k a year with an actual, practical degree qualification is ***** money.

Nurses are not "lucky" to have a job or job security.

Nurses should of course fight for what they believe is an acceptable rise.

I think all of the above are obviously true....

That said, I actually think a pay rise might not be the best (although of course it helps) response to the last year. Instead* their unions should be pushing for better working conditions to ensure they dont ever take a battering like that again.

Unfortunately, that would necessitate more nurses, and who is going to be inspired to take up nursing after they year they have had and the very public reward on offer for said year.

*not instead, aswell as....

Also, is it a Brotish phenomenon to steam In with an opinion on what other people should earn? This last year has exposed so much "BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEE" sentiment in this country. As stated by someone else above, whoever you are, join a union and fight for what you think you deserve
Were was a degree mentioned
 

531Man

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On top of a 12% pay rise over the past 3 years.
I think you've been suckered by believing what a politician said on media interview.
The 12% figure is one of those selective smokescreen stats. they love to selectively trot out in defence of the undefenceable to deflect more critical analysis.
From what I heard from a Nurses leader, it was a rise awarded over 3 years, only awarded to 'newly qualified' bottom rung nurses, not all nursing grades as was being 'implied' but not actually stated by the politician. Typical politician obfurscation.
I was in the NHS biomedical sciences/pathology profession for 40 years, and saw this kind of 'pay rise' many times.
The more experienced long-term staff would see NO rise at all as the money from the state was unaltered by apparently generous rises at one end of the scale resulting in no rise at the other.
Usually accompanied by a truncation of the number of pay scale points available, so fewer 'experience' increases before reaching the so-called top point.
This then feeds into a point made elsewhere here, that the only way for hard working nurses to achieve increased pay is to follow that well-known path of rising by promotion to your level of incompetence, rather than being better paid in a job you love and are experienced in, and pass on knowledge and skills to the newly-qualified on the job.
Remember the old Q/A joke,
Q.
"How can you tell when a politician is lying?,
A.
" Their lips move".
 

Nidger

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While i agree the nurses deserve a pay rise i will not be signing any petition the reason being my wife has worked in a council run care home in a special dementia care unit throughout this and they had several of the people they look after die of Covid and some staff also got it though thankfully non died, they haven't had an above cost of living rise in years why should nurses get 12% the unions are calling for TBH i have grown tired of hearing the nurses were the heroes through the pandemic (clap the nurses etc) many people have had to go to work throughout this and no one ever mentions them.

Rant over.

Threads merged.

Mrs left council care work having not had a pay rise in 8 years.
Also new contracts for equal pay, the council wouldn't pay it, fought it tooth and nail costing a fortune in council tax money, lost so tore up contracts and reduced pay.
Mrs is now an NHS auxiliary nurse and ironically the council staff are now on more money, got a £500 bonus during the pandemic and all she and her colleagues got was a crappy badge they had to pay £1 for out of their own pockets.

There's a lot on both under payed, over worked and under staffed.

There's also a lot of private carers under qualified who I hope I never have to entrust care to myself or family.
 

Nidger

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My daughters best mate is a nurse 22 years old on 25k a year, wish i could have had the equivelent at 22

My mrs is 58.
Was a time served pharmacy technician. Now an auxiliary nurse with NVQ 2, 3 and 4, amongst others.
She's no where near that basic.
What you find is more and more responsibility trickling down which saves money.

As for degrees. I've worked with plenty i wouldn't entrust to build a cardboard box.
 

Nidger

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I think you've been suckered by believing what a politician said on media interview.
The 12% figure is one of those selective smokescreen stats. they love to selectively trot out in defence of the undefenceable to deflect more critical analysis.
From what I heard from a Nurses leader, it was a rise awarded over 3 years, only awarded to 'newly qualified' bottom rung nurses, not all nursing grades as was being 'implied' but not actually stated by the politician. Typical politician obfurscation.
I was in the NHS biomedical sciences/pathology profession for 40 years, and saw this kind of 'pay rise' many times.
The more experienced long-term staff would see NO rise at all as the money from the state was unaltered by apparently generous rises at one end of the scale resulting in no rise at the other.
Usually accompanied by a truncation of the number of pay scale points available, so fewer 'experience' increases before reaching the so-called top point.
This then feeds into a point made elsewhere here, that the only way for hard working nurses to achieve increased pay is to follow that well-known path of rising by promotion to your level of incompetence, rather than being better paid in a job you love and are experienced in, and pass on knowledge and skills to the newly-qualified on the job.
Remember the old Q/A joke,
Q.
"How can you tell when a politician is lying?,
A.
" Their lips move".

If a politician told me it was raining I'd have to check they weren't pìssing on my shoes.
 

Brew_DD2

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My daughters best mate is a nurse 22 years old on 25k a year, wish i could have had the equivelent at 22
You could've. Because you didn't isn't the fault of the nursing profession.

To any of you saying that nurses aren't underpaid, you should do a bit of volunteering on the wards when all this has passed. If you still feel the same after seeing firsthand what the job entails, then there is no help for you. My earnings as a manager in Tesco weren't much less than I'm on as a nurse. The latter requires a degree and life-long learning, as well as a number of specialised skills and knowledge.

It's not that those in retail management don't deserve that money. The big problem has been that as minimum wage has risen year on year (as it should), but public sector wages were frozen for a decade. All this means that the gap between unskilled work and professions like nursing has narrowed to an unacceptable level, and the salary Vs cost of living has changed dramatically.

12% pay rise is not as advertised either. They just reduced the amount of time it takes to reach incremental increases that you would already get through progression. Nurses still have to pay £120 annual registration just to practice, as well £15 a month for representation.

In Scotland we got 3% pay rises for 3 years. If that continues, I'll be satisfied given the current financial climate, but let's not pretend that nurses should grateful.
 
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Nidger

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Nurses are not underpaid. No way could the vast majority of them get anything like their T's & C's anywhere else. The myth of relative poverty ceased to have any form of truth decades ago. Get real. Very few will see any increase in their prosperity for the foreseeable future. Not even amongst those that make an actual economic contribution.

Really ?
Some nurses are on good money, a lot aren't.
Maybe you should do some research before making assumptions.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Nursing and medical staff are in short supply and posts remain vacant across the country in all regions and in all disciplines.
That won’t change because the work is hard and the pay is sh1t3.
That is not just in the NHS care homes struggle to fill vacancies due to the type of work they have to do and the pittance they are paid for doing it.

I know i am repeating myself (from earlier post) but compared to a people like my wife that work with the the elderly mentally infirm i would suggest many of these nurses jobs are a breeze.
 

Nidger

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You could've. Because you didn't isn't the fault of the nursing profession.

To any of you saying that nurses aren't underpaid, you should do a bit of volunteering on the wards when all this has passed. If you still feel the same after seeing firsthand what the job entails, then there is no help for you. My earnings as a manager in Tesco weren't much less than I'm on as a nurse. The latter requires a degree and life-long learning, as well as a number of specialised skills and knowledge.

It's not that those in retail management don't deserve that money. The big problem has been that as minimum wage has risen year on year (as it should), but public sector wages were frozen for a decade. All this means that the gap between unskilled work and professions like nursing has narrowed to an unacceptable level, and the salary Vs cost of living has changed dramatically.

12% pay rise is not as advertised either. They just reduced the amount of time it takes to reach incremental increases that you would already get through progression. Nurses still have to pay £120 annual registration just to practice, as well £15 a month for representation.

In Scotland we got 3% pay rises for 3 years. If that continues, I'll be satisfied given the current financial climate, but let's not pretend that nurses should grateful.
Mrs is an auxiliary nurse.
As you will be aware they are on buttons, I wouldn't get out of bed for her wage let alone do the tasks she has for 12.5 hours.
She was a time served pharmacy technician and has nvQ 2, 3 and 4 amongst other qualifications yet no degree.
Most responsibility trickles down from above so saving money for the government on wages.
 

Nidger

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That is not just in the NHS care homes struggle to fill vacancies due to the type of work they have to do and the pittance they are paid for doing it.

I know i am repeating myself (from earlier post) but compared to a people like my wife that work with the the elderly mentally infirm i would suggest many of these nurses jobs are a breeze.

A breeze ?
Jeezus. There were dementia patients in the hospital my mrs works kicking off smashing things etc last week and not enough staff or security to cope.
Di you think council run homes are the only hard working ?

Like i said, the old job council care is more money than the mrs is on and she has it harder now.
But hey, fook em all eh ? ;)
 

Chippy_Tea

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My daughters best mate is a nurse 22 years old on 25k a year, wish i could have had the equivalent at 22
My wife is on £18K before tax she gets no overtime payment if she goes in to cover sickness and holidays which she often does as she is a care worker, how many of the nurses would do that.

If they get a wage rise (which is a big if) it is never more than the cost of living.
 

Chippy_Tea

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To any of you saying that nurses aren't underpaid, you should do a bit of volunteering on the wards when all this has passed.
When soldiers sign up they know what they will be earning they know the training regime that they will go through and also know there is a small chance they may one day have to go to war and risk being killed when they do do they come back and start a campaign saying they should be paid more for risking their lives no so why are nurses suddenly deserving of a 12% pay rise just because they have been in a **** storm for 12 months, they are not the only ones every care home in the country has been through this and their PPE was a joke, i am not saying the nurses do not deserve an above cost of living rise but this should be across the board not just for the nurses.
 

Chippy_Tea

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A breeze ?
I didn't say all nurses jobs are a breeze but compared to care workers looking after people with dementia i would say many are.

Jeezus. There were dementia patients in the hospital my mrs works kicking off smashing things etc last week and not enough staff or security to cope.
These patients were sent back to the care homes as soon as they could be because the hospitals couldn't cope which spread covid in the homes so your statement backs up my point about the difference in jobs perfectly.

Di you think council run homes are the only hard working ?
No and i didn't say that, some nurses jobs will be tough, every carer who works with people with dementia has a very tough job.


Like i said, the old job council care is more money than the mrs is on and she has it harder now.
;)
My wife is on £18K before tax she gets no overtime payment if she goes in to cover sickness and holidays which she often does as she is a care worker, how many of the nurses would do that.
If they get a wage rise (which is a big if) it is never more than the cost of living.

But hey, fook em all eh ?
Grow up.
 
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