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Chippy_Tea

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To any of you saying that nurses aren't underpaid, you should do a bit of volunteering on the wards when all this has passed.
My wife became a care worker knowing the wage which was less than the job she left to do it, her mother was a carer and spent here whole working life as a carer and loved it, nursing and caring is not a job its a vocation unfortunately some entering it do not get this and they rarely last and that is why staff turnaround is so high.
 

Brew_DD2

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When soldiers sign up they know what they will be earning they know the training regime that they will go through and also know there is a small chance they may one day have to go to war and risk being killed when they do do they come back and start a campaign saying they should be paid more for risking their lives no so why are nurses suddenly deserving of a 12% pay rise just because they have been in a **** storm for 12 months, they are not the only ones every care home in the country has been through this and their PPE was a joke, i am not saying the nurses do not deserve an above cost of living rise but this should be across the board not just for the nurses.
I never said anything about them deserving a 12% pay rise. Realistically it should actually be higher given the decade of frozen wages, but that will never happen. The wages should be going up more than 1% regardless of COVID. Everyone knows what the salary is prior to getting in to the profession. It doesn't mean that they should be satisfied with being undervalued.

If soldiers feel they are underpaid or undervalued, or that they'd been expected to go beyond the remit of their role, I'd absolutely support them in that.
 

Brew_DD2

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My wife became a care worker knowing the wage which was less than the job she left to do it, her mother was a carer and spent here whole working life as a carer and loved it, nursing and caring is not a job its a vocation unfortunately some entering it do not get this and they rarely last and that is why staff turnaround is so high.
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. Why take a pay at all if they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a profession that requires a great amount of work and skill, and as such the pay should reflect that. The "vocation" line gets trotted out time and time again and all it does it place a guilt trip on the healthcare professions for asking for what they deserve.

Should a Consultant accept 20k a year because it's a vocation? A police officer? A soldier?

Staff turnover is high because the conditions are not good. Nearly 50,000 nursing vacancies nationwide. Who do you think is covering all these gaps and being expected to do more and more?
 
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Brew_DD2

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These patients were sent back to the care homes as soon as they could be because the hospitals couldn't cope which spread covid in the homes so your statement backs up my point about the difference in jobs perfectly.
That's not strictly true. Those who were deemed to be medically fit, but awaiting a care package (classically known as bed-blocking) were discharged to care homes because hospital leaders were terrified that they wouldn't have enough beds to treat COVID and acute medical patients, resulting in people being sent home to die. It's not because they couldn't cope with dementia patients. All Adult Nurses have intimate knowledge in nursing dementia patients.
 

GhostShip

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I get the impression that this is the Unions flexing their muscles.

I’m not knocking the NHS - by and large they do a fantastic job and the NHS and its staff are a real credit to the UK.

But. Millions have worked throughout the pandemic - to keep us fed, to keep the power on, to drive our buses and trains, to care for people - I could go on.

What I don’t like about this is the suggestion that all NHS workers have put their lives on the line. What percentage of staff actually worked on the covid wards (low)? What percentage have been off at any given time with stress, anxiety, other illnesses or because they need to shield or isolate (high). My wife has worked throughout in a very large hospital in Cambridge and the vast majority have simply carried on doing their normal jobs - just like all other workers I mentioned above.

Those that have worked in covid wards are heroes in my eyes - and I know that some of them lost their lives, but to put all NHS staff in the same bracket is misleading. The economy is on its knees and people need to be realistic about pay rises - particularly when many have or will lose their businesses and jobs.

A good start to giving NHS workers something back would be to stop charging staff for parking. Given the shift patterns nurses have to work, charging them to park at the hospital is disgusting in my view And is something that should be changed ASAP.
 
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the_quick

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And look what happen, we are arguing who should get a pay rise and who shouldn't, who work harder etc.

I wonder if that was the entire goal, make people turn on each other but not on this corrupted government. Of course I could turn and said school support staff workers are not paid enough etc, despite working during lockdowns.

Ministers are spending money right, left and centre without any controls, millions wasted on contracts that were not delivered, or delivered wrong, unusable items - turn your frustration against them not each other.
 

Nidger

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I didn't say all nurses jobs are a breeze but compared to care workers looking after people with dementia i would say many are.



These patients were sent back to the care homes as soon as they could be because the hospitals couldn't cope which spread covid in the homes so your statement backs up my point about the difference in jobs perfectly.



No and i didn't say that, some nurses jobs will be tough, every carer who works with people with dementia has a very tough job.




My wife is on £18K before tax she gets no overtime payment if she goes in to cover sickness and holidays which she often does as she is a care worker, how many of the nurses would do that.
If they get a wage rise (which is a big if) it is never more than the cost of living.


Grow up.

Grow up ?
You said you won't sign the petition because your sick of hearing about nurses yet council workers get nothing and work harder.
Like i said they are on more than auxiliary nurses, in fact they had a pay rise before xmas here.

The mrs worked with dementia in council care and also now on NHS
She got covid last year at the hospital and spread it to the family, luckily she didn't die as some of her colleagues did.

I'll sign the one for NHS and one for local care. ;)

Grow up ?
Touche .
 

Nidger

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And look what happen, we are arguing who should get a pay rise and who shouldn't, who work harder etc.

I wonder if that was the entire goal, make people turn on each other but not on this corrupted government. Of course I could turn and said school support staff workers are not paid enough etc, despite working during lockdowns.

Ministers are spending money right, left and centre without any controls, millions wasted on contracts that were not delivered, or delivered wrong, unusable items - turn your frustration against them not each other.

This.

And look at the track and trace.

NHS test, track and trace is costing 22 billion, paid to private companies run by Conservative friends and donors. The NHS could have done the same and made a much better job of it for approximately 4 billion.
 

Perrin_Abara

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While i agree the nurses deserve a pay rise i will not be signing any petition the reason being my wife has worked in a council run care home in a special dementia care unit throughout this and they had several of the people they look after die of Covid and some staff also got it though thankfully non died, they haven't had an above cost of living rise in years why should nurses get 12% the unions are calling for TBH i have grown tired of hearing the nurses were the heroes through the pandemic (clap the nurses etc) many people have had to go to work throughout this and no one ever mentions them.

Rant over.

Threads merged.
I hear you. My partner is a nurse and this Pay Rise thing does not sit well with her, although she does think they deserve one she doesn't believe this is the right time as many people have been struggling financially and its not just NHS staff that have been fighting the good fight.
 

John Galt

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I have a couple of mates who are nurses. They certainly don’t live in poverty, I think everyone deserves a pay rise with inflation and costs rising IN NORMAL time.

The issue here is who pays for public services?! The private sector via taxes, the private sector has been decimated. Personally I have lost over 70% of turnover and would normally give the tax man in excess of £30k per year. I’m only a small micro business, so you can imagine the loss of tax intake from large companies and on top of that the costs to help save jobs through furlough etc.

Unfortunately we all have to take a hit and some people have lost everything, I have seen friends hit rock bottom after losing their jobs and the only thing they knew. I have other friends who run small businesses that have had to sell everything they worked hard for just to pay the mortgage.

So I’m sorry I have absolutely no sympathy for people who have have kept their jobs and livelihoods, their homes etc and complain that they have only got a small pay rise while the rest of us have fallen of a cliff financially. This comment is in no way a lack of appreciation for the nhs or nurses. Some of them do a great job and I hope they get compensated properly when the economy is fixed.
 

Hazelwood Brewery

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I recently retired from the NHS. My average pay rise over the last 13 years has been 1%pa. I know myself the cost of living has increased several times that amount on an annual basis. It’s this long-term erosion the professional body is looking to correct, or at least reduce. They know they won’t get what they ask for but if they ask for 12%, they may get 3% if they’re lucky.

A better approach might have been a worthwhile one-off payment that would make the nurses feel their efforts and difference is valued but also limit the impact on recurring cost to the taxpayer. A £1,000 one-off bonus to all the NHS staff would cost less than 0.25% of the Covid bill last year.

I also agree care staff are even more undervalued and would be happy for them to get the same bonus. The problem here is that many/most care home staff are employed by private companies/individuals.
 

Chippy_Tea

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I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. Why take a pay at all if they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. It's a profession that requires a great amount of work and skill, and as such the pay should reflect that. The "vocation" line gets trotted out time and time again and all it does it place a guilt trip on the healthcare professions for asking for what they deserve.
As i have said several times they know the pay when they take the job and vocation doesn't mean they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts it means they care about the job they do they are not just doing it to earn a wage i have already said my wife and her colleagues do many hours of overtime due to staff shortages they do not get any overtime payment for doing it yet they do it without moaning as they care about the people they look after.
 

Chippy_Tea

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It's not because they couldn't cope with dementia patients. All Adult Nurses have intimate knowledge in nursing dementia patients.
There were dementia patients in the hospital my mrs works kicking off smashing things etc last week and not enough staff or security to cope.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
 

Chippy_Tea

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That's not strictly true. Those who were deemed to be medically fit, but awaiting a care package (classically known as bed-blocking)
I cannot speak for there you live but here patients coming back to the care home here were not tested this caused Covid to spread quickly and that caused a huge headache for the homes and staff with little in the way of PPE etc.

We’ve been asked by readers whether it was government policy on 19 March to send hospital patients back into care homes, without making it mandatory for them to be tested for Covid-19.

This is correct. There was no requirement to test all patients being discharged from hospital into a care home until 15 April 2020, though some trusts were testing patients before that date.
 

Chippy_Tea

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Grow up ?

Like i said they are on more than auxiliary nurses, in fact they had a pay rise before xmas here.

The mrs worked with dementia in council care and also now on NHS
She got covid last year at the hospital and spread it to the family, luckily she didn't die as some of her colleagues did.

I'll sign the one for NHS and one for local care. ;)

Grow up ?
Touche .
I told you to grow up because you posted "But hey, fook em all eh" in your reply to me as if that was my view on the subject which you know it isnt.

You said you won't sign the petition because your sick of hearing about nurses yet council workers get nothing and work harder.
Could you show me where i directly said care home workers work harder than nurses if you cannot stop misquoting me to try to make you argument stronger!

I'll sign the one for NHS and one for local care.
Is there one for local care?
 

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