Over 1000l of steriliser for 35p

Help Support The HomeBrew Forum:

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
Just thought I'd mention this as it's always worked for me.

Tesco thin bleach at 35p for 2l.



I mix 40ml to 23l of water in a FV (PH should be 7.5 - 8 if you have the means to test), sink my bottles and syphon tube etc. in it and leave for 30 mins. No rinse needed if you let the equipment dry or rinse to use straightaway. It's never failed.

I use Isopropanol alcohol to sterilise and clean things like my hands and hydrometer before and after use, I also use this in my airlocks. Again cheap at around £15 for 5l and it has loads of uses:

  • Remove permanent marker
  • Removes labels
  • Cleaning electrical circuit boards
  • Mix with vaseline to make napalm (well a BBQ lighter)

Anyone have any other cleaning/sterilising tips?
 

Chippy_Tea

Administrator.
Administrator
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
29,413
Reaction score
6,935
Location
Ulverston Cumbria.
I don't go overboard when cleaning and its never been a problem, i rinse bottles after use with hot tap water and the same with my FV using the shower then dry it with a clean tea-towel and i use Milton Tablets to sterilise.
 

Bigcol49

Landlord.
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,082
Location
Doncaster
Hi!
Found this online:
Charlie Talley says that chlorine is the “granddaddy of them” all as far as sanitisers are concerned- chlorine bleach is the benchmark against which all other sanitisers are measured, but it really only works when the pH is around 8 (and you achieve this by adding vinegar), but too much vinegar makes gas (or mixing vinegar with bleach directly) and in the most extreme worst-case-scenario that could knock you out.
I add bleach to water, agitate it and then add the vinegar. It works after 30 seconds contact time, it's cheap and I can make up a fresh batch every time I need it.
The solution is: 40ml household bleach in 5 litres water with 8ml white vinegar added.
 

Drunkula

Landlord.
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
1,387
You've got to know the strength of the bleach and make it 80ppm for the Charlie Talley no-rinse.

http://www.topdownbrew.com/bleachSanitizer.html
https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/ServicesAndTools/Tools/Pages/Dilution-Calculator.aspx
https://www.indigoinstruments.com/sanitizer-dilution-calculator.php

Take a look for bleach that lists the concentration - it'll be grams per 100g of liquid. Asda's is 0.99g per 100g, so less than 1%. Talley says most bleach as being 5.25% but don't just assume that.

Between a pH of 4 and 5 is where it really gets mental death machine status and goes up about 800 times but under 4 it'll start offgassing chlorine, so if you're remotely a bellend then just buy some StarSan. Chlorine gas when it hits anything wet will turn into hydrochloric acid - your eyes get burny and if your lungs if exposed long enough will lose their lining and start filling with water. Bizarrely I was listening to this on the 5 Live Science yesterday podcast yesterday.

http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf

And make sure it's thin bleach and definitely IS thin bleach because sometimes it isn't. I've said in another thread if you swirl the bottle and it looks remotely more viscous that water then put a little in a bottle with some water and shake it - if there's any foam at all it's not just thin bleach. I had loads of batches of beer get a vinyl taste from not rinsing. It worked for 2 bottles of bleach but then the exact same brands had batches that were bolloxed up.
 
Last edited:

Ciaran12s

Regular.
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
472
Reaction score
126
Location
NULL
Starsan is pretty good. My bottle cost me 22 quid about 11 or 12 months ago and is about 4/5ths full. 22 quid for 5 years approximately is good value. It's also very convenient, I use a calpol syringe to measure 2ml in to a 1 litre spray bottle and use that for everything.
I don't like having to use so much water to completely fill all vessels for sterilizing, it seems a bit wasteful.
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
Hi!
Found this online:
Charlie Talley says that chlorine is the “granddaddy of them” all as far as sanitisers are concerned- chlorine bleach is the benchmark against which all other sanitisers are measured, but it really only works when the pH is around 8 (and you achieve this by adding vinegar), but too much vinegar makes gas (or mixing vinegar with bleach directly) and in the most extreme worst-case-scenario that could knock you out.
I add bleach to water, agitate it and then add the vinegar. It works after 30 seconds contact time, it's cheap and I can make up a fresh batch every time I need it.
The solution is: 40ml household bleach in 5 litres water with 8ml white vinegar added.
Just to check the ratios I've listened to the interview with Charley Talley (link below) and he says:

1 fluid ounce (US assumed) to 5Gal (again US assumed) This works out at 29.5ml to 19l of water to give 80ppm. so approx. 35ml in a standard 25l FV would be correct

Link to interview: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da96899933961/bbr03-29-07.mp3?c_id=1452161&expiration=1519573053&hwt=36b3a9270083893b86d222e7ba8e397c

Listen from about 18mins for quantities but the whole thing is worth a listen.
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
Starsan is pretty good. My bottle cost me 22 quid about 11 or 12 months ago and is about 4/5ths full. 22 quid for 5 years approximately is good value. It's also very convenient, I use a calpol syringe to measure 2ml in to a 1 litre spray bottle and use that for everything.
I don't like having to use so much water to completely fill all vessels for sterilizing, it seems a bit wasteful.
We've plenty of water in Yorkshire but you can of course adjust to make 1l of bleach/water and spray as per Starsan.
 

Drunkula

Landlord.
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
1,387
We've plenty of water in Yorkshire but you can of course adjust to make 1l of bleach/water and spray as per Starsan.
As an aside you've got to make up the bleach solution fresh every day, the stability of bleach crumbles as soon as you drop the pH.

I stored demijohns with the bleach solution in them and wondered a few times how dead mice got into them - it was some grim balls of black fungus.

EDIT:
and as I put above - don't just presume those amounts because the bleach concentrations vary - Asda bleach is less than 5 times the strength of what he states - use the calculators I've listed above.

DON'T adjust the amount of vinegar at the same level - If you had to use 5 times as much bleach, like you'd do with the Asda stuff, don't use 5 times as much vinegar. 1.6ml per litre, 8ml per uk gallon.
 
Last edited:

Bigcol49

Landlord.
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
3,683
Reaction score
2,082
Location
Doncaster
Just to check the ratios I've listened to the interview with Charley Talley
Hi!
Morrison's Value bleach is a 0.99% solution; 40ml in 5 litres gives just short of 80ppm.
35ml in 25 litres would be only About 14ppm.
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
Hi Drunkula

I'm more of a physicist than a chemist so this isn't my speciality but can I ask were you got the pH levels from?

Between a pH of 4 and 5 is where it really gets mental death machine status and goes up about 800
I'm only going from the info in the interview above so you may be correct but it does say the pH should be below 8, is it that if you get down to 4-5 it's better?. I only ask as because of the water here I don't add any vinegar and get pH 7.7 ish.

Hi!
Morrison's Value bleach is a 0.99% solution; 40ml in 5 litres gives just short of 80ppm.
35ml in 25 litres would be only About 14ppm.
Fair comment, I was going on the approx 5% quantity but as Drunkula pointed out they all vary.
 
Last edited:

Drunkula

Landlord.
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
1,911
Reaction score
1,387
can I ask were you got the pH levels from?
http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf - there's a chart further down the page. There was a really good page on the University of Oregon about it but it's down. In case it comes back it was at:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/larc/sites/default/files/pdf/chlorine-fact-sheet.pdf

It's 80 to 200 times stronger when the pH is dropped, not 800, I remember it wrongly. When you've dropped the pH to anywhere near 7 you're already making it crazy more effective. The risk of going between 4 and 5 just isn't worth it because you'd only be pulling fractionally more killing power. At your 7.7 you've already boosted its power plenty.
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf - there's a chart further down the page. There was a really good page on the University of Oregon about it but it's down. In case it comes back it was at:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/larc/sites/default/files/pdf/chlorine-fact-sheet.pdf

It's 80 to 200 times stronger when the pH is dropped, not 800, I remember it wrongly. When you've dropped the pH to anywhere near 7 you're already making it crazy more effective. The risk of going between 4 and 5 just isn't worth it because you'd only be pulling fractionally more killing power. At your 7.7 you've already boosted its power plenty.
That's what I love about hobbies such as making wine, I/we learn so much science and the processes of conducting scientific experimentation with practical application. I can justify getting drunk as purley a means to further my scientific knowledge :)
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
Not sure why this thread has been moved here? I thought the "Snug" was for none brewing related posts, surly cleaning and sterilising equipment is more related to brewing than it is to the right wing/Daily Mail c**p that's posted in here!
 

Chippy_Tea

Administrator.
Administrator
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
29,413
Reaction score
6,935
Location
Ulverston Cumbria.
I moved it here so more people would see it as both beer brewers and wine makers visit and you posted the original in the wine forum that I imagine only 10% of members visit, do you want me to send it back to the wilderness?

Oh and the snug is a place where you can discuss non home brew topics but home brew discussion is not banned.
 

MickDundee

Landlord.
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
3,195
Reaction score
1,503
I moved it here so more people would see it as both beer brewers and wine makers visit and you posted the original in the wine forum that I imagine only 10% of members visit, do you want me to send it back to the wilderness?
I never bother going into the individual forums unless there’s something I’m specifically looking for. Otherwise I only ever have the “New Posts” list open.
 
Last edited:

Chippy_Tea

Administrator.
Administrator
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
29,413
Reaction score
6,935
Location
Ulverston Cumbria.
I prefer to view forums individually and rarely use the new posts link, as they say one man ceiling is another man's floor :wink:
 

LED_ZEP

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
170
Location
Leeds
I tend not to post in here (the "Snug") often as I find many of the post very disagreeable. I actually posted in the wine forum as it's been a little quiet in there of late.
 

LarryF

Brew Numpty
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
2,033
Reaction score
822
Location
Ally Pally, London.
When I started brewing 3 years ago I bought 2 bottles of Milton and as I use 2.5ml per brew the second one is still going strong(I'm too stubborn and tight to ditch it) . With the Milton I do rinse but when it runs out I will be looking to use Starsan but I do live in London so have the hard water and I believe that Starsan is an acidic cleaner. So not sure whether to carry on with the Milton as it's served me so well, in that I've never had a single issue with sanitation in 3 years or switch to Starsan in a hard water area.
 

Dutto

Dutto
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
7,206
Reaction score
3,843
Location
East Lincolnshire
I'm just loving this whole Thread! :thumb:

For more times than I care to recall, I've had to explained how Bleach can be used in brewing without danger to the brewer or his brew.

BTW, the Tesco Thin Bleach shown on the OP has "Less than 5% hypochlorite" printed on the back of the bottle.
 
Top