OXIDATION TEST - Bottling Home Brew Beer!

Discussion in 'General Beer Discussion' started by BeerCat, Sep 21, 2019.

Help Support The Homebrew Forum UK by donating:

?

Do you shake your bottles after bottling?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    17.3%
  2. No

    43 vote(s)
    82.7%
  1. Oct 25, 2019 #21

    BREWERS DROOP

    BREWERS DROOP

    BREWERS DROOP

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    138
    Location:
    Burton on Trent
    One flaw in his experiment,he didnt squeeze the air out the second bottle???
     
  2. Oct 25, 2019 #22

    peebee

    peebee

    peebee

    Out of Control

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    609
    Location:
    North Wales
    Maybe not a flaw? But some of the responses in this thread suggests it is giving the wrong idea.

    The "experiment" does not translate to rigid (glass) bottles. Although there has been good suggestions for dealing with oxygen in glass bottles (leave them a few minutes, not too many minutes, loosely capped so "outgassing" purges the airspace of O2 before crimping the cap). This is a tip the ancients amongst us will remember (from when there was no such thing as squeezy PET bottles). I very much doubt shaking a bottle with a purged airspace causes an issue, but not shaking a bottle with an unpurged airspace will have the issue (O2 doesn't need shaking to dissolve in the beer, time will do it).

    A bit of common-sense is in order. Or if you know you have no common-sense, believe in your chosen mentor (the one with common-sense).
     
    BREWERS DROOP likes this.
  3. Oct 25, 2019 #23

    Cwrw666

    Cwrw666

    Cwrw666

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    2,168
    Likes Received:
    1,018
    Location:
    North Pembs.
    I've always shaken bottles and never noticed an issue.
    There again I always fill them to between half and a quarter inch from the top. So not a lot of O2 in there really.
     
  4. Oct 25, 2019 #24

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    GhostShip

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I've never shaken my bottles as I batch prime before bottling, but I have had a few instances of 'home brew twang'. Following a tip I saw on here from @terrym, for the first time I have squeezed the air out of the bottles on the brew I'm conditioning at the moment (St Peter's Cream Stout) when capping. I'm amazed at how quickly the PET bottles recovered their true shape and it will be interesting to see if removing as much oxygen as I can from each bottle makes a difference to the finished beer. I'll need to try it on a lighter kit (I'll probably do the AIPA again next) as I think the darker beers tend to be a bit more forgiving when it comes to the twang.

    Really interesting video.
     
    GerritT likes this.
  5. Oct 27, 2019 #25

    dwhite60

    dwhite60

    dwhite60

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2019
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Garner, NC, USA
    When I bought my first kit in 1990 the shop owner told me to add sugar to the bottle, fill, cap, and after a week give each bottle a quick twist.

    Never heard of shaking them.

    I used to batch prime but racking into a bottling bucket seemed like another chance to get oxygen in the beer and the second bucket was one more thing to have to clean and sanitize. I use sugar cubes to prime now. Pre-measured and very easy.

    All the Best,
    D. White
     
    GerritT and An Ankoù like this.
  6. Oct 28, 2019 #26

    peebee

    peebee

    peebee

    Out of Control

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    609
    Location:
    North Wales
    I think the "shake" bit comes from the belief that undissolved sugar will create a layer of very high gravity liquid at the bottom of the bottles. Which the yeast sinks in to and is killed.

    Home-brewing had its list of fantasies to lean on in the 60s or 70s like it does now. And us humans like our habits (even if they are complete boll...).
     
  7. Oct 29, 2019 #27

    F00b4r

    F00b4r

    F00b4r

    Regular.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Berlin
    This layer is definitely possible. I have had first hand experience of it once when batch priming without stirring, luckily the first bottle I tried alerted me as it was like a super sweet shandy so I quickly chilled all the rest down. A small proportion of bottles appeared to have the vast majority of the priming sugar solution in.
     
  8. Nov 8, 2019 #28

    Arrakus

    Arrakus

    Arrakus

    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    I lost 2 batches this year due to shaking, all of it oxidised. Straight down the drain. Heartbreaking. Never again.
     
    GerritT likes this.
  9. Nov 9, 2019 #29

    BeerCat

    BeerCat

    BeerCat

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,720
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Location:
    East and West Grimblestbottom under the rye
    If it males you feel any better I chucked over a dozen crates away.
     
    Arrakus likes this.
  10. Nov 9, 2019 #30

    foxy

    foxy

    foxy

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    307
    Possible that the reference to drinkable comes from the oxidation, when I cask a beer first beers are nice and fresh as it ages the beer takes on a different flavour due to the oxidation. I prefer this to the fresh beer, I don't do this with a 20 litre cask just the 10 litre casks.

    Once the yeast goes into the anaerobic stage it doesn't need oxygen, just the sugar, thats why once the fermentation has started it would be bad practice to stir or add oxygen to the wort. When bottling I fill the bottle up to the top then cap, as oxygen is 21% of air then I am pretty safe in thinking the amount of oxygen is low.
     
  11. Nov 9, 2019 #31

    Argentum

    Argentum

    Argentum

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    N/E Ohio, USA
    Oxygen absorbing crown caps must be wetted post crimping to activate them, but a mild tilt does that. Shaking is insane. Added sugar will fully dissolve without any shaking.

    Wetting O2 absorbing crown caps pre applying them (as in sanitizing or washing them) kills their ability to absorb O2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
    GerritT likes this.
  12. Nov 9, 2019 #32

    chrisbjones202

    chrisbjones202

    chrisbjones202

    Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Brackley, Northamptonshire
    Interesting test, I normally tip the bottles but coincidentally bottled a Belgian golden last night and didn't without thinking about it.

    I might try it myself purging a bottle and shaking another next time to see, as others have said with glass you can't squeeze the air out and while some co2 is given off before capping I'm not convinced it sits below the oxygen like water under oil pushing the oxygen out unless it's frothing.

    Again with batch priming (I normally batch prime my Weizen as I transfer to bottling bucket for ease) I'm not convinced it's evenly distributed and therefore more accurate than adding sugar to the bottles though unless you give it a good mix adding some oxygen in the process. Best do what your happy doing.
     
  13. Nov 9, 2019 #33

    foxy

    foxy

    foxy

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    307
    Not quite true about sanitising the caps, they can be sanitised prior to putting the cap on the bottle. according to the manufacturer it takes days for them to activate.
    Around the 2 minute mark on this podcast
    https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/6/b/a6...73330713&hwt=1307b2e72eee34461fcbf264f19cc442
    I have used them and didn't notice any difference.
     
    Argentum and F00b4r like this.
  14. Nov 10, 2019 #34

    Argentum

    Argentum

    Argentum

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    N/E Ohio, USA
    That is great news, and certainly corrects my prior presumption.
     
    GerritT likes this.
  15. Nov 10, 2019 #35

    foxy

    foxy

    foxy

    Landlord.

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    307
    Doesn't mean to say they work Sierra Nevada tried them for a while, Ken Grossman says they are still searching for the Holy Grail of bottle capping.asad.
     
  16. Nov 10, 2019 #36

    GerritT

    GerritT

    GerritT

    Landlord. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    725
    Sugar cubes. 2, 3 or 6 grams. Works like a charm.
     
    dwhite60 likes this.

Share This Page