PeeBee's Brewday - Low Alcohol Beer

[peebee]

And the fittings I used:

• 1/4" BSPP male -> 7/16" JIC (same as 1/4" female flare, or ffl). Part no. 2BJ0407. Connectors for the Corny keg disconnects.
• 1/4" BSPP female -> 1/4" BSPP male check valve. Part no. pcvf02-02. The check valve prevents catastrophic (!) loss of pressure from the keg if the CO2 cylinder is accidentally detached.
• 08/06mm OD (finger-tight) with spring-guard -> 1/4" BSPP male stud. Part no. e1z-8/6-1/4. But I use 08/06mm polyurethane tube for CO2 hence these fittings. The 8mm OD stuff I use for the high-pressure (4-5 BAR) "bus" lines, the low-pressure (after the secondary regulators) lines are 06/04mm tube - simply so I don't mix them up (there are no low-pressure lines needed for the "spunding" assemblies).

All (and the tube) from Context Pneumatics here: https://www.contextpneumatics-catalogue.co.uk/.

 

[MyQul]

Where did you get the recipe from? or did you make it up

 

[peebee]

Made it up. Big Drop's "Pale" was the inspiration. But I can say now, the hopping ain't right. Too bitter. Too much emphasis on dry hopping. Flavours akin to dry leaves. I approached it from the "Brewdog" angle, and the Continental (Bobek) and NZ (Wai-iti) hops don't work like the new American varieties.

I still find it more drinkable than the Nanny State clone.

 

[peebee]

Update to tasting notes.

As mentioned previously, this is a bit of a "miss" regarding cloning Big Drops "Pale". New phone so I can do half-decent piccies again:

Still a little murky. Colour has a ruddy tint, probably from the crystal. Aroma, hum, more later, but a bit like dry autumn leaves, not "perfumed" as I was expecting. Taste; quite "aggressive" bitterness but hop flavour subdued, somewhat lemony, but not distinctive which was a bit of a disappointment. Mouthfeel not watery thin, but decidedly thinner than first tasting (maybe too cold, its about 7C; perhaps suspended yeast had contributed to mouthfeel). Head was initially quite a volume, but "loose" and died back to what can be seen in picture quite quickly (but hung on to those remnants). Carbonation a bit high. Somewhat negative report, but the beer is most quaffable.

It had been a rocky road getting it this far (two weeks old now). The few bottled samples had developed an overwhelming taint of damp brown corrugated cardboard - classic sign of oxidation apparently, but no suggestion how that could occur. Worse, the first keg escaped damp cardboard, but had its own slight taint of TCP or "Elastoplast". Where'd "TCP" come from? But fortunately after two weeks it … vanished (just as mysteriously). I don't think the "dry autumn leaves" taint will disappear but I think that can be down to inappropriate (high) dry hopping levels with these NZ hops?

The hiccups illustrated how susceptible these "0.5% ABV" beers are to taints. How diligent one needs to be with brewing practices, and the need to keep "hands-off" as much as possible. If errors creep into your 4+% beers the errors will likely be amplified making these 0.5% beers.

Next up, what to try next.



(EDIT: Second keg sampled, no hint of any taint. Very baffling. Pity the over-hopping didn't vanish too.)

 

[peebee]

This seems topical at the moment (according to BBC):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45446439

Anyway. The above beer continued to clear leaving a "haze" like all my beer since giving up finings - seems I'll have to start fining again. Still on the second (untainted) keg. Surprisingly the flavour has matured and rounded off which I wouldn't have expected for such a low-alcohol beer. But as would be expected the "over-hopping" is still very evident: I've concluded these continental/NZ hops are too delicate to treat like the new American varieties - their delicate flavours have been over-whelmed by the American-"craft-beer"-style-dry-hopping rates (taste of "autumn leaves" predominates) and the 35EBUs of these non-American hops is very bitter in a low alcohol beer. But people seem to be using high rates of non-American hops and not grousing about them? If I dig deep I can still imagine I can taste the "mandarin orange" from the hops (never did get the "lime" mentioned in the descriptions of Wai-iti hops).

The "TCP" taint is returning to the first keg which probably backs up the presumption (discussed elsewhere) that the silicone extractor hose in the keg is tainted through over-long exposure to VWP (the taint is local, not effecting the entire batch, and has diminished with time so its now taking longer to be strongly evident). One to watch out for and ensure there is no repeat, whatever I'm brewing. I'm none too pleased with silicone hose (when used after boiling and cooling) if it is responsible for harbouring this taint as its porosity has already caught me out before by allowing beer within the hose to oxidise.

Next up I'm going to try the one "Sadfield" posted earlier in this thread https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2018/07/rye-neipa-with-mosaic-and-hallertau.html?m=1 . Okay, a bit high in alcohol (around 2% ) but provides some leeway for tinkering. A 74C mash (never tried that), some very gummy grains (but not using a lot anyway), I'll use s-33 yeast which is hopeless at fermenting complex sugar (which I predict this mash will produce a lot of), BIAB (actually brew-in-a-basket to try my new Chinese-sourced basket which barely made it here - still unsure if it has made it - because it was packed so badly) and mashing in the full brew-length of water. Shortcuts galore. The hop rate seems high, but the quoted figure seems miles out (I calculate 32 IBU, not 45!). (EDIT: Let the boiler cool to 85C and IBUs comes to 24. Never done just steep and dry-hop only additions before).

Meantime I need to get on some proper beer (6-8%) in time to be ready for Xmas.

 

[peebee]

Something I stumbled across that might explain the "autumn leaves" flavour from my dry hopping. Bit of a long shot, it's about hop oxidation and leaching manganese from hops, not really the sort of explanation I'd give much credibility to. But my experience ticks all the boxes: Heavy dry hopping, light beer (very light!).



(It's 4 minutes in and goes on for about 3 minutes, but the entire episode about boiling wort is quite interesting).

 

[ryderkellan]

Stumbled across this _ v interesting thread. Curious as to whether you've continued with low ABV and whether you'd be at all interested in putting a few simple recipes out there? There might be a fair bit of interest in this. because of migraine in my case. Cheers

 

[peebee]

Hi @ryderkellan . My younger brother is afflicted with migraines after drinking alcohol too. He did drink my <0.5%ABV "Pale Ale" when here last time but I haven't heard from him since and can only assume it works out.

As stated earlier, my brewery has a 40L minimum brew length and it can take me four months to get through a batch of low-alcohol beer. Which doesn't make for rapid development. I've just finished the last batch (the one with the reported chlorine taint in one keg, that completely vanished btw, but it never recovered from the heavy handed hopping) and expect to get another batch or two on in the next few days (one will be the linked "rye-neipa", stronger at 1.7% alcohol but experimenting with high percentage of rye, S-33 yeast, steep & dry hops only and high temp mashing - 74C - plus a second, a repeat of my last brew but with much reduced hopping using NZ Nelson Sauvin). Be assured it will all get written up on this forum.

I've solved my big brew length conundrum so can do 20L batches now, not by shifting to BIAB as planned but having splashed out on a Black Friday Grainfather deal. So my developments will accelerate, but I'm still a long way short of being able to recommend recipes other than I write up here.

 

[-Bezza-]

I'm interested to see how you get on with this. Keen to get a low alcohol brew on for the summer for the drivers and pious.

I actually managed to get hold of some big drop pale, and their stout, after looking for it for ages. Was in Tesco and only cost about £1.20 a bottle.

I drank it in a pub about a year ago and was really impressed and didn't think I could tell it apart from an alcoholic beer. The one I had a couple of days ago was a different story - felt a bit thin and lacking and the hops were pronounced and bitter. This is all comparative of course - still a few lengths ahead of anything else and not a bad drink at all.

If I was to make something in a similar vein, I would want to try getting a touch of maltiness in there to convey more depth, perhaps a hint of residual sweetness (biscuit?) to balance the hops and a bit more body (wheat or oatmeal?).

Edit: just checked back to your recipe and looks like we aren't a million miles apart in our thinking.

 

[brewhaha]

I really recommend the Mad Fermentationist Rye NEIPA in Peebee's earlier post. I added 250g of Munich & hopped 2:1 in favour of Mosaic to try & bolster the malt flavour a bit. It came out at just under 2% but the body was nice & full & it did have a pretty good malt backbone (the rye was nicely prominent).

You have to be careful with your whirlpool temperature though. Mine was a little too high so the bitterness was out of balance & clashed with the rye spiciness a bit.

Mine also overcarbonated in the bottle. I suspect that fermentation carried on slowly in the bottle as the yeast found a way to chomp through the longer chain sugars from the high mash temperature. Probably more suited to kegging where you could sling some Campden in & knock out the yeast before force carbing. I don't have that option so I'll be trying Peebee's suggestion of S-33 next time.

 

[-Bezza-]

I really recommend the Mad Fermentationist Rye NEIPA in Peebee's earlier post. I added 250g of Munich & hopped 2:1 in favour of Mosaic to try & bolster the malt flavour a bit. It came out at just under 2% but the body was nice & full & it did have a pretty good malt backbone (the rye was nicely prominent).

You have to be careful with your whirlpool temperature though. Mine was a little too high so the bitterness was out of balance & clashed with the rye spiciness a bit.

Mine also overcarbonated in the bottle. I suspect that fermentation carried on slowly in the bottle as the yeast found a way to chomp through the longer chain sugars from the high mash temperature. Probably more suited to kegging where you could sling some Campden in & knock out the yeast before force carbing. I don't have that option so I'll be trying Peebee's suggestion of S-33 next time.

Will check that out when I come round to it, although I think I'd want something in the 0.5-1% range rather than a heady 2%.

I wonder whether you can taste the CO2 more in a low ABV beer which is adding an element of bitterness too?

Interesting that Big Drop list lime in the ingredients on their website and that there is a greater quantity of lactose then hops (Ingredients: water, barley, wheat, lactose, hops, lime, yeast..)

 

[peebee]

I really recommend the Mad Fermentationist Rye NEIPA in Peebee's earlier post. I added 250g of Munich & hopped 2:1 in favour of Mosaic to try & bolster the malt flavour a bit. It came out at just under 2% but the body was nice & full & it did have a pretty good malt backbone (the rye was nicely prominent).

You have to be careful with your whirlpool temperature though. Mine was a little too high so the bitterness was out of balance & clashed with the rye spiciness a bit. ...

Thanks for that encouragement. All the ingredients are weighed out for my "Rye NEIPA" attempt, but not sure if I'll get it brewing before Christmas. I'm not tinkering much with the original recipe, it is really an experiment to try some new "low alcohol" brewing techniques (lots of rye, very high temperature mash, steep and later hopping only); as @-Bezza- says, the alcohol level is a bit high for a "low alcohol" beer (that is, "abstention day" low-alcohol - so I cheat a little...). I'll take note of the "whirlpool" temperature warning: I'm planning on steeping at 85C (Beersmith predicts 24IBU at this temperature, but 32IBU for the same hop quantity at "flame-out").

… Interesting that Big Drop list lime in the ingredients on their website and that there is a greater quantity of lactose ...

When I get around to MkII "Big Drop Pale Ale" clone I'm going to try maltodextrin in place of lactose this time - so with the "vegan" finings and suitability for the lactose intolerant, it should tick many of the "new-age" boxes. Don't know about the lime - I couldn't detect it in the commercial stuff anyway and wont be using the Wai-iti hops this time (reputed to have "lime" hints).

 

[bobukbrewer]

In the new year I will make a 4% SMASH beer, and when fermentation is 90% complete I will remove 90% of the "beer" and heat it to 90 deg C for 1 hour, cool it back to 25 deg C and add back to the fermenter...

 

[ryderkellan]

Great stuff. Am going to try something on these lines in the new year. I take it one of the big challenges is getting the right hop balance? Also I'll be bottling this rather than kegging...

 

[bobukbrewer]

I only ever bottle in 2 litre 1 litre 750 ml 500 ml and 330 ml bottles.............

 

[peebee]

In the new year I will make a 4% SMASH beer, and when fermentation is 90% complete I will remove 90% of the "beer" and heat it to 90 deg C for 1 hour, cool it back to 25 deg C and add back to the fermenter...

This is the "old" way of getting low-alcohol beer, and the results can be a bit hit or miss. Mainly "miss" which is why you don't find a lot of information about doing it. So I only consider the "fermentation" method which hasn't been pushed much until recently. The other disadvantage of "cooking" the beer (apart from adding some not so good flavours) is you don't know (without analytical equipment) how successful you've been at reducing (not removing, that is practically impossible at home) the alcohol; the alcohol does not readily want to evaporate for weird physical reasons that I do not understand too well.

Great stuff. Am going to try something on these lines in the new year. I take it one of the big challenges is getting the right hop balance? Also I'll be bottling this rather than kegging...

That is what I'm finding, malt flavour and body can be tackled quite well, but hopping seems to cause all sorts of problems that isn't being discussed enough as yet. All my difficulties with hopping stem from over-doing it, so watch that one. Bottling I haven't tried to cover so good luck … the reason I avoided bottling is the priming can end up resulting in a third of the alcohol in such beers, somewhat undoing the intention.

 

[bobukbrewer]

the 10% that I don't heat to 90 deg C is the priming once the boiled liquor is added back.....

 

[peebee]

New Grainfather. New techniques for low-alcohol brewing to try (Rye "NEIPA"). Here we go …

Recipe based on https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2018/07/rye-neipa-with-mosaic-and-hallertau.html?m=1 modified very slightly:

Brew length 20L
2.2Kg Rye Malt (Crisp)
0.85Kg Naked Oat Malt (Crisp)
1.0Kg Oat Husk
50g Mosaic hops, T90 pellets (USA, 2017 crop)
50g Hallertau Blanc hops, T90 pellets (Germany, 2017 crop)

Grain (not husks) ground in Bulldog mill, gap at 0.83mm (quite close, but Bulldog mill does have highly textured rollers). Husks added to grains.

Grainfather charged with nearly full amount of water treated as "yellow balanced" (Bru'n Water) - that's 26.1L very soft water with 1.7g calcium chloride, 0.8g Epsom salt and 1.1g magnesium chloride. Plus 0.1g sodium metabisulphite. The Grainfather's top plate will not have enough grain to support it so has been attached to the overflow nut with a hose clamp. Water heated to 77C strike temperature.

Grain mixed in, overflow nut and top plate "assembly" fitted, and nut pushed down until top plate on surface of mash water. Lid fitted and recirculation arm, recirculation pump started. Recirculation valve closed a bit to stop the recirculated wort splashing about (the pump is quite strong). pH taken as 5.5, as predicted by Bru'n water. Temperature settles to 73C, as predicted by Beersmith.

After 60 minutes recirculation off, set heat to 100C and lift up grain basket. Allow to drain and sparge with 1.7L (a kettle full) of 75C water. Remove top plate assembly.

Remove grain basket. Make up to predicted boil volume of 24.4L (add 1L topup water) bring to boil and set timer for 40 minutes. Fit 150mm diameter hop basket in Grainfather. Set heat to 85C and fit lid. Fix cooler with outflow returning to GF. Run recirculation for 5 minutes (sanitise) before switching on cooling water and allowing to cool to 85C. Switch off cooler and add 25g Mosaic and 20g Hallertau to hop basket. Steep for 30 minutes. Heat off, outflow pipe moved to keg and continue cooling (now pumping to keg). Divert 1L to a bottle (the keg only holds 19L).

Check temperature (overshoot, and only 16C) and pitch with 1/2 packet S-04 (some to bottle). Close keg. 2 days and not much sign of ferment (little gas released from keg's PRV). Panic! Add other 1/2 packet S-04. But ferment signs by next morning (tardy). Keg only seems to hold 18L to be well clear of gas dip tube so move another 1L too a bottle. Fit "spunding" valve. See earlier in thread about these "spunding" valves. The NR200 regulator has been set to 7-8PSI. The Sodastream bottle is providing the static back-pressure that allows this regulator to act like a very accurate "spunding" valve. The regulator is relieving ("spunding" if you like) at 12PSI.

The bottles are fermenting now too (the caps are on loose!). Samples for gravity checks (and tasters!) can be arranged by fitting a tap (or beer-gun) to the keg's "Liquid Out" disconnect.

OG was 1.026, two day after starting to ferment SG was 1.016. Keg lid removed and a sanitised hop cage with the remaining hops immersed in the beer. Keg lid replaced, airspace purged with CO2, and re-pressured to 12 PSI.

A day later SG not moved much. 1.4% ABV. Hop aroma is astonishing and dry hops haven't kicked in yet. Hop flavour ain't shabby either! Very solid mouthfeel as would be expected from a beer with FG of 1.015, but not a beer of only 1.4% ABV! Let's see how it goes ...

 

[peebee]

Check out the colour of beer in those bottles. I think this is due to the (pale?) rye malt (the only other content is oat malt and oat husks - the latter because these oat/rye mashes are supposed to be really stodgy - there is no coloured malt). Beersmith never predicted this colour, and I certainly wouldn't have thought it.

 

[Sadfield]

I wouldn't expect that colour from Rye malt either.