PeeBee's Brewday - Low Alcohol Beer

[peebee]

I wouldn't expect that colour from Rye malt either.

Okay, so I've got a mystery? The colour seems to have come from the mash (see the dark "mud" on top of the oat husks in the "spent grain" piccie above). It only had a 60 min. boil. But the oat husks (at 2EBC according to MM) look a bit charred in places.

 

[brewhaha]

Check out the colour of beer in those bottles. I think this is due to the (pale?) rye malt (the only other content is oat malt and oat husks - the latter because these oat/rye mashes are supposed to be really stodgy - there is no coloured malt). Beersmith never predicted this colour, and I certainly wouldn't have thought it.

My version of this recipe came out much darker than anticipated as well & I don't use a Grainfather or similar so I wonder if it is malt related. Maybe from the GNO???

 

[Sadfield]

Long and unlikely shot, you've not been supplied Crystal Rye malt by mistake?

 

[peebee]

Long and unlikely shot, you've not been supplied Crystal Rye malt by mistake?

Yes, unlikely perhaps. But I won't dismiss it just yet - I've plenty to go check (I bought enough for a batch out of the main brewery which has to churn out twice as much like it or no).

 

[peebee]

Long and unlikely shot, you've not been supplied Crystal Rye malt by mistake?

Hum, there's nothing here that says "crystal". The grains are hard but not "glassy" or particularly sweet. Careful reading the label, it says "Crisp" not "Crystal"! EBC 5.5 though, is that particularly dark for pale rye?

But to be honest I've never seen crystal rye malt. I'm going to say the colour's from the bit of charring on the oat husks (not got any of that left for a photo).

But on the beer side:

The hop basket is removed (after three days, I'm not taking any risks after the hopping failure of last low-alcohol brew). The brew, in it's keg/fermenter, is in the brew fridge set at 7C - the fermentation had settled at a whopping 1.016 - and BrauSol finings (vegan!) added, which is a new one on me. Note to self: Cool the keg before removing the lid - it didn't immediately froth over, but after a few seconds the frothing became an unstoppable force (until I got the lid back on). Re-pressured to 12PSI.

 

[peebee]

My version of this recipe came out much darker than anticipated as well & I don't use a Grainfather or similar so I wonder if it is malt related. Maybe from the GNO???

The "GNO" (this stuff was actually sold as "naked oat malt") is very pale and I can't suspect it of being the culprit. Thanks.

(EDIT: "GNO" appears to be a trademark of Simpsons, and might be quite unlike the Crisp stuff?)

 

[brewhaha]

The "GNO" (this stuff was actually sold as "naked oat malt") is very pale and I can't suspect it of being the culprit. Thanks.

(EDIT: "GNO" appears to be a trademark of Simpsons, and might be quite unlike the Crisp stuff?)

I used the Simpson's stuff & it was pale as well so can probably chalk it off as a culprit. It was just interesting that you were surprised by the colour as well with the same recipe.

I guess it's got to be the rye. You could try steeping some leftovers & comparing?

 

[Sadfield]

Hum, there's nothing here that says "crystal". The grains are hard but not "glassy" or particularly sweet. Careful reading the label, it says "Crisp" not "Crystal"! EBC 5.5 though, is that particularly dark for pale rye?
View attachment 17438
But to be honest I've never seen crystal rye malt. I'm going to say the colour's from the bit of charring on the oat husks (not got any of that left for a photo).

But on the beer side:

The hop basket is removed (after three days, I'm not taking any risks after the hopping failure of last low-alcohol brew). The brew, in it's keg/fermenter, is in the brew fridge set at 7C - the fermentation had settled at a whopping 1.016 - and BrauSol finings (vegan!) added, which is a new one on me. Note to self: Cool the keg before removing the lid - it didn't immediately froth over, but after a few seconds the frothing became an unstoppable force (until I got the lid back on). Re-pressured to 12PSI.

Odd that Maltmiller Crisp Rye Malt is double the EBC stated on Crisps website (2.5-3.5 EBC).

 

[peebee]

Odd that Maltmiller Crisp Rye Malt is double the EBC stated on Crisps website (2.5-3.5 EBC).

Yes I see that. And the same Web site (Crisp's) has a PDF stating 22-32EBC! Just looking at it sort of makes you think "this isn't pale".

 

[Sadfield]

Yes I see that. And the same Web site has a PDF stating 22-32EBC! Just looking at it sort of makes you think "this isn't pale".

And under the description tab on maltmiller....

"EBC 25

In brewing, when mixed with barley malt, rye malt can improve head retention, improve mouthfeel and introduce flavour changes of a toffee/caramel note at lower inclusion rates and a spicy after-palate at higher inclusion rates. Most notably, rye malt will also impart a reddish hue to beers."

The pale rye I used recently from Brewuk (Weyermann) had grains that were very pale and grey in appearance. The photo you posted looks slightly darker and brown (on this screen).

 

[peebee]

… very pale and grey in appearance. The photo you posted looks slightly darker and brown (on this screen).

Yes they do look dark (with the characteristic green tint). Seems the rye malt is responsible for the beer's amber colour and Crisp are malting rye for a different attribute than just colour? But no matter. At the moment the hops mask out any hint of "spicy" (or any other) notes in the rye malt too. At the moment the "experiment" is resulting in quite pronounced mouthfeel, very low fermentability (FG 1.016, attenuation of about 40%), dramatic head (though not head retention) and all at an 1.4% ABV. It's got promise. It appears to be outside Beersmith's prediction limits for attenuation (it predicted over 2% ABV). I just hope the hopping doesn't go banana shaped this time.

 

[Sadfield]

Have just received an online beer order (eventually thanks to Yodel) that contains the Big Drop Pale, Lager, Sour, Brown and Stout. Looking forward to trying these in the week. Off set them with a bottle of Founders DKML, bourbon barrel aged imperial malt liquor at 14.2%.

 

[peebee]

The "rye IPA" has turned out smashing. But at 1.4% ABV it is pushing the boat out a bit on my abstention days. The hopping was still a little "wrong" but not as bad as my earlier attempt. I've started taking note of the "BU/GU ratio" method: It has this beer as a little over one, which is a bit high (0.8 is considered a bitter beer). Applied to my last low-alcohol beer (with the Bobek and Wai-iti hops) that came out at 4! No wonder it was "rough".

So taking the "rye IPA" recipe and a BU/GU ratio of a more modest 0.5 and getting the alcohol <1%, I've built a recipe of:

Afon Ceidiog
18L, 8 IBU, SG 1.015
Attenuation (estimate) 40%, FG (estimate) 1.009, ABV 0.7%

0.75Kg Rye Malt (Crisp, 25EBC!)
0.25Kg Light Munich Malt (Crisp, 22EBC)
0.20Kg "Light" (medium to everyone else) Crystal Malt (Crisp, 150EBC)

Mashed 45 minutes @ 74C, Mashout 20 mins @ 74->78C

Boil 60 minutes, chill to 82C (no boil hops).

Steep hops 15g Nelson Sauvin (pellets) (30 minute steep).

Chill 18C. Keg (!) with packet Safbrew Ale S-33 (rehydrated) and 25g Nelson Sauvin (dry hops, pellets). Prepare regulator to ferment under pressure (12PSI).


This is the cumulation of the various techniques I've picked up so far. It was brewed (earlier today) using a Grainfather setup to brew as "full boil mash" ("full volume mash") and no sparge - packing in yet more shortcuts. I wrote up twisting the Grainfather procedures to work with Beersmith (the recipe designer I use) and to handle "low-alcohol" brewing here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11engfVsgy6okCgLiuwb8gc2gaMVahiV7/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ISrSYlK5q5Acf1xHgaZ8mC_0mm2UWuhA/view?usp=sharing
(Warning: Reading these could lead to brain damage that might rival mine!).

In a few days the dry hops will come out, the keg repressured and chilled. <-(EDIT: I don't learn! Chill it first, then take the hops out. Avoids a messy froth over!). Ready next month when I return (hopefully) from checking out an active volcano or two. A month? Oddly I've noticed these "low-alcohol" beers take a while to "mature". I originally had the idea that "low alcohol" means rapid maturing, but it doesn't.

 

[bobukbrewer]

mashing at 74 deg C seems a bit high and for only 45 minutes - still it works for you..........

 

[peebee]

mashing at 74 deg C seems a bit high and for only 45 minutes - still it works for you..........

74C? That's one of the key advancements in brewing palatable "low alcohol" beer! I'm trying to emphasis that by using S-33 yeast - a really bad attenuator.

High temperature mashes favours Alpha Amylase which wades into the starch randomly swinging a big axe. Beta Amylase sits down with a fillet knife and takes much longer. You might get away with just a 20 minute mash, but I've not been that brave yet.

 

[peebee]

I'm relying on the gloopy reputation of rye to give some mouthfeel to the beer. Why rye? Oats and wheat have that same viscous nature (beta-glucans, a gum-like glucose polymer apparently?). I thought about this for a bit and ...

Who's got a breadmaker? With bread flour (wheat) you fit the big paddle to knead it up - no problem. Oats? No warnings about them, just use the big paddle. Rye? Ah … chuck the big paddle out and reach for that fork like attachment. Use the big paddle on rye and the breadmaker's motor burns out.

With this contrived explanation, I now reach for the malted rye on every "low alcohol" beer formulation.

 

[peebee]

Fermentation has already rounded off at the anticipated FG (1.009). Reached that in 30 hours, confirmed by moving no-where at 40 hours. Guess that's the result of tipping in the entire packet of yeast (probably x3-4 more than was needed). Mouthfeel not as expected (I'll try not to say "watery" … damn, I said it). Perhaps with no oat husks to break up the mash (like last time) a lot of the gummy bits didn't leach out? The SG wasn't quite up to calculated either (1.013, rather than 1.015) but getting a good gravity reading at these level is n'ar-by impossible. Hopping is well under control now.

I'm getting the impression this brew is advancing my skills at producing "low alcohol" beer, but it ain't there yet?

 

[Sadfield]

Fast fermentation, higher attenuation and thin body are likely the result of such a big over-pitch of yeast.

 

[peebee]

Fast fermentation, higher attenuation and thin body are likely the result of such a big over-pitch of yeast.

Hum. Fast fermentation for sure, but I'm probably leaping to conclusions too soon as 48 hours hasn't past yet (some of my earlier "low alcohol" attempts hadn't shown much sign of starting in this time). But attenuation does seem on par (currently <30%).

Might just be my expectations have been clouded by the "Rye NEIPA" you'd recommended to me (FG 1.016, that's higher than this one's SG and higher than most of my full strength beer FGs, but an ABV of 1.4% was too high ).

(EDIT: I notice I let the boil time creep up to 60 minutes for this one - it was only 30 minutes for the "Rye NEIPA". I wonder if that has an effect?).

 

[Sadfield]

But attenuation does seem on par (currently <30%).

My mistake, got the all the SG and OGs mixed up in my head.

IMO, pitch rate is critical in these beers.

This is worth a read. And interestingly throws up an unexpected result for under pitching.

https://sciencebrewer.wordpress.com/tag/pitching-rate/