pennine's brewdays

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How well would adding some extra sparge water and boiling down the first runnings to about 1/4 or so of it's original volume work as a way of mimicking a decoction?
I have pondered trying it in a doppelbock and a Czech dark pilsner somewhere in the future.
That's a good question, I have also wondered if just mashing in at room temperature and then heating up to a standard mash temp would also mimic a decoction. I think some would say you need to include the malts in when you boil to get the true affect.
 
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I have an Italian pils on my radar. I have all the ingredients, I plan on keeping it simple, 5kg Eraclea malt. Just need to work out the hop's, I have a good few German noble hops to choose from
It seems like the American recipes are adding to late additions and dry hopping more heavily than the Italian versions, not surprising I guess. I think for the next one I will stick to early additions and then dry hop only. Saaz and Hallertau Blanc make a really good combo. Saphir seems well regarded too, I have not used it though.
 
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I have also wondered if just mashing in at room temperature and then heating up to a standard mash temp would also mimic a decoction.
Not really... with a decoction the idea is that you not only remove a portion of the mash and heat it right up, which liquifies the small-granule starches from the grains; but that you also then add this portion back to the original mash. This second bit is key because the original mash still contains all the enzymes required to convert the new starch into fermentable sugars. These enzymes would be destroyed by heat at the temperatures required to release the small-granule starches - so it's this ability to do a 'backwards temperature step' that makes a decoction special athumb..

You could get the same effect by boiling the entire mash and then adding exogenous enzyme, but that feels a bit unsporting LoL
 
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Not really... with a decoction the idea is that you not only remove a portion of the mash and heat it right up, which liquifies the small-granule starches from the grains; but that you also then add this portion back to the original mash. This second bit is key because the original mash still contains all the enzymes required to convert the new starch into fermentable sugars. These enzymes would be destroyed by heat at the temperatures required to release the small-granule starches - so it's this ability to do a 'backwards temperature step' that makes a decoction special athumb..

You could get the same effect by boiling the entire mash and then adding exogenous enzyme, but that feels a bit unsporting LoL
Very good point, I was thinking about the concept in heating to a mashout but you are right about earlier in the mash.

One other thing I have always wondered about with decoction is they say they did them due to using under modified malts but that has always seemed odd to me that you would take a low diastatic malt and then reduce the enzyme balance by boiling off half of it. It seems to me that the maintaining temperature was a more likely reason for it.
 
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216 - Belgian Blue
11l batch - 1.079/1.011 - Step Mash 50/60/65/70

Getting this brew on, hopefully the yeast that has been hanging in the fridge for a while is still alive... Edit the pancake syrup idea came from this basic brew episode. Somehow per serving it has 40g of carbs and only 20g of sugar, I am not sure what type of carbohydrate the other 20g are? http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr09-09-21sugarsampler01a.mp3

Amt
Name
%/IBU
2.50 kg​
Vienna (Proximity) (6.9 EBC)​
70.4 %​
0.30 kg​
Brewers Torrified Wheat (Briess) (3.0 EBC)​
8.5 %​
0.05 kg​
Midnight Wheat Malt (Briess) (1083.5 EBC)​
1.4 %​
0.25 kg​
DME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil] (7.9 EBC)​
7.0 %​
0.25 kg​
Candi Syrup, D-90 [Boil] (177.3 EBC)​
7.0 %​
0.20 kg​
Log Cabin [Boil] (2.0 EBC)​
5.6 %​
15.00 g​
Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​
43.4 IBUs​
25.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 20.0 min​
11.7 IBUs​
1.0 pkg​
B48 Triple Double (Imperial Organic Yeast #)​
-​
 
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Erik The Anglophile

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Pancake syrup, is that Maple syrup? Does it leave any flavour after fermentation?
I found a 450g jar of date syrup in the store the other day, been thinking about brewing a Double with it in the future.
 
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Sampled the Czech lager today, FG is right where it is supposed to be and it tastes extremely malty. Seems like the decoction may have worked. It's missing some bitterness though and I swore I got taste of acetaldehyde from the bud yeast.

Hoping the off flavours are just from it being a bit green still.

20220510_160741.jpg
 
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These days I feel like my brewing is completely regressing, this sample batch I made is complete acetylaldehyde ****. Smells and tastes like sour green apple cider. I am not sure what's going on although these were fermented in two new fermenting buckets with us-05. So possibly an oxidation issue?

Then onto my keg woes, this has been on gas one full day at 2psi and it's ******* shooting all foam. The beer is carbonated ok maybe a bit on the low end so it's not over carbonated but why all the foam? I have to disconnect from the gas and then vent some of the pressure to get it to piour ok. Is it crappy keg design (looks like a large beer can basically with the dip tube on the side) or is my regulator broken?

Anyway I might just start bottling exclusively again....

20220514_121110.jpg
 
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I just realized I brewed those apple batches a month ago... Not sure why I let them sit so long in the fermenters. Thought it was only 2 weeks. Note to self 10 days max for fermenting in buckets from now on.

I also kegged the Czech pils and unfortunately it tastes exactly like Budweiser... Wyeast labeled it as a Pilsen lager those tricksters.

20220522_175824.jpg


Oh I also got a new regulator for the keg at the lhbs, crossing my fingers that is the problem. Although I suspect it is because I vented the keg and it was way less explosive than venting with the old regulators. I was actually surprised to read they go bad.

Edit: I also need to figure out bittering at high altitude. Most of the beers have been very low bitterness even when shooting in the 40s for ibus.
 
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Last one for the night, it does seem to be a bad regulator. The new one work just fine on both keg taps.

Also an interesting note the Italian pils is now much more bitter after I poured one when it was hooked up to the gas line. Hmmm I am very surprised how different it is drinking now.
 
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Alright figured I would pull a sample and taste the water mineral addition beers. The one on the left is calcium chloride and on the right is gypsum. I always thought CaCl helped with head retention and it looks like it is true on these as well.

The CaCl is much more muted and dull. Might even be a bit creamy feeling. The gypsum is very bright and fruity. Almost like it amplifies the carbonic bite.

I mixed them together and the CaCl dominates. I prefer gypsum one to be honest. Maybe in a darker ale the CaCl would be better.

Too bad these taste like apple cider. Both kegs are going down the drain. I think I may try this experiment again with a stout to try the other end of the spectrum.

20220527_191958.jpg
 
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217 - Czech pilz 2
11l batch - 1.050/1.010 - Step Mash 50/60/65/72/78

Trying out another recipe, without decoction and actual bohemian malt. The other batch is not bitter enough so I am bittering with Magnum and shooting for 50 ibus, hoping that will get me close to 40 with the lower boil temps. I am going to boil for 70 minutes. Also shooting for the italian pils small dry hop. Will update in a bit.

Amt
Name
%/IBU
15.40 L​
DenverWater​
-​
3.00 ml​
Phosphoric Acid 85% (Mash)​
-​
1.00 g​
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)​
-​
0.20 g​
Calcium Chloride (Mash)​
-​
2.30 kg​
Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC)​
96.0 %​
0.10 kg​
Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC)​
4.0 %​
12.00 g​
Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​
38.2 IBUs​
10.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 30.0 min​
6.7 IBUs​
10.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 10.0 min​
3.1 IBUs​
1.0 pkg​
Czech Pilsner Lager (Wyeast Labs #2278) [124.21 ml]​
-​
20.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - 10.0 Days Before Bottling for 5.0 Days​
0.0 IBUs​
 

Brewnaldo

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217 - Czech pilz 2
11l batch - 1.050/1.010 - Step Mash 50/60/65/72/78

Trying out another recipe, without decoction and actual bohemian malt. The other batch is not bitter enough so I am bittering with Magnum and shooting for 50 ibus, hoping that will get me close to 40 with the lower boil temps. I am going to boil for 70 minutes. Also shooting for the italian pils small dry hop. Will update in a bit.

Amt
Name
%/IBU
15.40 L​
DenverWater​
-​
3.00 ml​
Phosphoric Acid 85% (Mash)​
-​
1.00 g​
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)​
-​
0.20 g​
Calcium Chloride (Mash)​
-​
2.30 kg​
Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC)​
96.0 %​
0.10 kg​
Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC)​
4.0 %​
12.00 g​
Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​
38.2 IBUs​
10.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 30.0 min​
6.7 IBUs​
10.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - Boil 10.0 min​
3.1 IBUs​
1.0 pkg​
Czech Pilsner Lager (Wyeast Labs #2278) [124.21 ml]​
-​
20.00 g​
Saaz [3.75 %] - 10.0 Days Before Bottling for 5.0 Days​
0.0 IBUs​

I am all over this site atm, looking for ways to improve my lager game, and a lack of bitterness is one area I have identified to work at. I sort of lazily thought I liked the region of 20-25 IBU, but I intend going a good bit harder on my next one, well into the 30s and with Magnum too. Perle for flavour/aroma and a few late IBUs.

I'm interested to watch how you get on with this.
 

foxbat

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I am all over this site atm, looking for ways to improve my lager game, and a lack of bitterness is one area I have identified to work at. I sort of lazily thought I liked the region of 20-25 IBU, but I intend going a good bit harder on my next one, well into the 30s and with Magnum too. Perle for flavour/aroma and a few late IBUs.

I'm interested to watch how you get on with this.
About 35 with Magnum does it for me with a pils. Mid 20s is more for a Helles. At 35 Magnum is still smooth and the bitterness is there but in the background if you see what I mean.
 

Brewnaldo

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About 35 with Magnum does it for me with a pils. Mid 20s is more for a Helles. At 35 Magnum is still smooth and the bitterness is there but in the background if you see what I mean.

Aye, I like magnum for bittering so i'll definitely be pushing it out a bit this next time. Bitterness I guess is a lot about personal perception aswell, so it makes sense for me to experiment with higher numbers.
 
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About 35 with Magnum does it for me with a pils. Mid 20s is more for a Helles. At 35 Magnum is still smooth and the bitterness is there but in the background if you see what I mean.
Yeah that is a good point about magnum being ok at a higher ibus in lagers thanks for pointing this out. I have good luck with it before so I picked up 500g to use for bittering on most beers.
 
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218 - Citra Wheat
12l batch - 1.050/1.010 - Step Mash 50/66

Everything is prepped, will probably brew this on Monday, Thanks for the idea @Little Rock Brewing! Even though I probably bastardized your recipe. Brewed this up, 1.050 into the fermenter. Tastes great!

Amt
Name
%/IBU
1.70 kg​
Pale Ale (Proximity) (6.9 EBC)​
65.1 %​
0.50 kg​
White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC)​
19.2 %​
0.25 kg​
Rye, Flaked (3.9 EBC)​
9.6 %​
0.16 kg​
Carapils Malt (Briess) (3.0 EBC)​
6.1 %​
10.00 g​
Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​
28.1 IBUs​
28.00 g​
Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 90.2 C​
12.4 IBUs​
28.00 g​
Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 90.2 C​
12.7 IBUs​
1.0 pkg​
Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml]​
-​
 
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218 - Citra Wheat
11l batch - 1.052/1.010 - Step Mash 50/66

Everything is prepped, will probably brew this on Monday, Thanks for the idea @Little Rock Brewing! Even though I probably bastardized your recipe.

Amt
Name
%/IBU
1.70 kg​
Pale Ale (Proximity) (6.9 EBC)​
65.1 %​
0.50 kg​
White Wheat Malt (4.7 EBC)​
19.2 %​
0.25 kg​
Rye, Flaked (3.9 EBC)​
9.6 %​
0.16 kg​
Carapils Malt (Briess) (3.0 EBC)​
6.1 %​
10.00 g​
Hallertau Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min​
28.1 IBUs​
28.00 g​
Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 90.2 C​
12.4 IBUs​
28.00 g​
Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min, 90.2 C​
12.7 IBUs​
1.0 pkg​
Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml]​
-​
American wheat
 

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