Percentage of grape juice in kits

[soupdragon]

Hi all

Does anyone know of a list that gives the actual grape content in kits? I know some kits have more than others and that even some of the "no sugar required" kits have some form of additional sugars added in the kit.

Any assistance will be gratefully received :thumb1:
Cheers Tom

 

[simon12]

Years ago the guy at the home brew shop when it was in Aldershot told me the only kits with no added sugar are the £120 winexpert ones and all other kits had or needed added sugar.

 

[soupdragon]

For that amount of outlay I'd blooming hope they'd be the best quality
Maybe one day though.
It's more the variation between the mid range kits I'm hoping for info about. The California Connoisseur, Beaverdale, Larsen, Cellar 7 and the like. I'm sure I've missed a good few brands out and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are rebranded versions of others.

Cheers . Tom

 

[simon12]

I don't think you will ever find out as it seems to me only the 100% grape no added sugar ones say and its hard to find others even admitting to adding sugar, after reading this its not always the be all and end all https://winemakermag.com/90-big-kits-wine-kits .

 

[simon12]

This old thread says cellar 7 is 50% but no idea where it came from, also it could vary depending on the grape harvest https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/cellar-7-red-wine-kits.17035/
The guy who posted it was online in Jan maybe you could message him.

 

[soupdragon]

Well that was an interesting read.
So maybe I won't worry about the issue too much then :hat:

Cheers Tom

 

[simon12]

Also came across this http://www.ritchieproducts.co.uk/winexpert/ it seems some of the cheaper winexpert kits are 100% grape.

 

[soupdragon]

According to that, the Beaverdale are all grape juice too.

Cheers . Tom

 

[simon12]

Weird I was only looking at the ranges that say no added sugars, this link says "The grapes are carefully balanced with sugars" for beaverdale http://www.beaverdalewinekits.co.uk/

 

[soupdragon]

I've had a Beaverdale merlot in my brew room for a few weeks. Just checked the box and it says it contains invert sugar. Seems the web site is wrong

Cheers. Tom

 

[soupdragon]

The first link that is

Cheers. Tom

 

[Gunge]

For that amount of outlay I'd blooming hope they'd be the best quality

For that kind of outlay, I'd expect the finished product, delivered to my door with some free glasses thrown in and a sommellier (or whatever they're called) to serve to me whilst I watch How It's Made on telly.

 

[tonyhibbett]

Cellar7 is actually 40% gjc of 7kg, which is probably a typical amount, but Wilco is 40% of 1.7 kg., only 50% of which is the claimed variety. Pure grape juice concentrate is quite expensive at around £9 per litre bulk retail. I grow my own grapes but the sugar levels of the juice is typically 16%, so I usually have to add 20% sugar to achieve 12% abv. Concentrate alone can never match fresh pressed wine grape juice, especially reds, but red juice in cartons is usually from dessert grapes, which does not make good red wine. The only exception is Waitrose pure merlot juice, but again the natural sugar content is only 16%. I made two 5 gallon batches, the first matured in an old barrel and the second in a new one. The first was not very good but the second was excellent. However the barrel, including stand, bung, tap and delivery, cost £95. It can be re-used but gradually loses that special flavour

 

[soupdragon]

So chances are that most of the £30-40 kits are all around the same % of grape juice concentrate?
Drinking a batch of "Richard's red" at the moment. It's actually quite drinkable now it's been bagged for around a month. It's nowhere near as tasty as the California Connoisseur merlot I recently finish though. The Beaverdale is next then I'm scaling up with a 5 gallon Harris Cabernet Sauvignon, got a Cellar 7 on the same order. The 7kg containers look rather similar in both kits, I wonder if the Harris is a rebranded version of the Cellar 7?
Both kits list concentrated grape juice, sugars (invert or otherwise), citric acid and preservative. The Cellar 7 also mentions water but the Harris does not. Would that just be an omission?

Cheers . Tom

 

[VW911]

Nah.
Young's make Cellar 7, Harris make "Harris"...

 

[soupdragon]

Must say the Harris was very reasonably priced. They even sell the container of juice on it's own for about £5 less so I may have a dabble of that in future as I've got plenty of yeast, stabiliser and finings :)

Cheers. Tom

 

[VW911]

Not a bad shout.
Why not just buy a varietal grape juice and go from there?
I see that a few supermarkets sell Merlot grape juice, maybe others are available...

 

[soupdragon]

Richard's Red cost around £6 for the juice and small bottle of red concentrate. The merlot juice works out at about £1 more. The Harris kit was just under £30 so works out cheaper :)

Cheers. Tom

 

[tonyhibbett]

Of course it's not just the amount of concentrate that matters but also the quality. I'm pretty sure the 1 litre you get with a Winebuddy 30 bottle kit is generic with perhaps a small amount of the stated varietal in the flavouring pack, along with other stuff. I've tried various red kits and found the Cellar 7 and Cantina cabernet sauvignon perfectly acceptable, although both are greatly improved if matured in oak casks. It's also true that you can make excellent red wine from just fresh elderberries and blackberries. This may have something to do with using fresh pressed juice. Concentrate is a very processed and loses much, especially aroma.

 

[soupdragon]

I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to make wine from actual grapes. I do understand from brewing my beer that the quality of the end product is much improved by using grain and hops over extracts (not wanting to start any discussion on that subject here). I am quite impressed with the difference between the wilko Cabernet Sauvignon and the California Connoisseur Merlot though. So as I'm the only person in my household that drinks wine, I'll have to stick to kits/grape concentrate for the foreseeable future.

Cheers . Tom