Pressure Fermenting?

[Bolsover Brewer]

How many home brewers are pressure fermenting and why? Traditionally British ales are, with the yeasts to ferment British ales, fermented at a specific temperature. I understand that we can, as most breweries do add pressure towards the end of fermentation, purely to partially carbonate the beer prior to kegging. Are there any other reasons, am I missing something?
We are thinking of a fermenter purchases, along with all the bits and pieces to meet these ends, when I say we that is myself and some work colleagues who are into home brewing. Looking forward to your replies.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I have the technology, which was bought primarily to allow easier making of lager. I now have proper temp control so I haven't used it in ages, but I am about to make a heavily dry hopped sour ale and will use the pressure fermenter to enable closed transfer and to retain a proper CO2 blanket when fermenting. Likely I will leave it under airlock for a while and then use spunding valve to carbonate at the end as you say.

If I was buying again I'd probably go for a snub nose. Iv never used the yeast collection thingy and the valve stem that comes up through the lid of the fermentasaurus gen 3 strikes me as an unnecessary potential leak path. Either that or I put it together wrong.... Both are very possible.

 

[The Baron]

Hi You will get loads of different answers to this. I myself do not pressure or intend to do I like to do it the reasonably traditional way and I do not see the benefits out way the cost.
It does have its place for some brewers who do a lot of NEIPA brews so that any oxygen can be kept to a minimum but really apart from that style of brew I personally can not justify the purchase for standard brewing of Ales and beers.
You will get some people who swear by it but do bear in mind some are the type of brewer who wants the latest tech for techs sake and then there are the brewers who for them it is a genuine way they want to go.
So read all the replies and make your choice but do be aware the cost will keep on coming as some of these units only last a couple of years as they need pressure testing after a period of time as per the manufacturers advise.
Good luck whichever way you go but remember Tech may help but does not replace brewing experience

 

[Clint]

Isn't pressure fermenting the point after when you realise you're not going to bridge the gap between your current brew and dwindling stocks of home brew?

 

[Mayor of Simpleton]

I have a fermenter that enables me to pressure ferment. My reason for getting it was for making better NEIPAs. My beers tasted great fresh but rapidly became oxidised and lost that hop intensity. I wanted to allow pressure to build at the end of fermentation to enable closed transfer to keg preventing any oxygen ingress. Based on n=1 so far it has been a huge success. My NEIPA has maintained that hop aroma and it has carried nicely through into the flavour. It is still tasting and looking great a month later

Would I use it for other styles - well I am fermenting a lager in it right now and I might use it for hop forward styles.

I see it as another tool available to the homebrewer; and I am all for that.

I am in full agreement with the Baron; understand your process and what you are doing. If having done your research and you feel that pressure fermentation is the way you want to go then do it.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I don’t do pressure fermenting myself but yeast produces fewer esters and yeast derived off-flavours under pressure. You are also able to ferment at higher temperatures (because of the above) and ferment more quickly (because of higher temperatures). I think the people that use pressure fermenting seriously are trying to produce cleaner beers.

 

[user 18729]

It’s all personal preference. With a unitank most brewers that I’ve spoken with will either cap and spund towards the end of fermentation or force carb using a carb stone during the crash (or a combination of both)

 

[crowcrow]

I pressure ferment 'lager' in a spare corny keg, the beer I get is great, very very drinkable and goes grain to glass in under two weeks. I still brew ipas the 'traditional' way, but if I had the kit I would. Brewing in a Corny means I get less that 16 litres in the final keg.

 

[foxy]

I don't think you are missing anything, if you are brewing ales and Belgian beers where yeast esters are a large part of the character of the beer then ferment at 1 atm at the advised temperature for the yeast. If fermenting an AIPA use a clean fermenting yeast and a small amount of pressure to reduce esters in the finished beer.
You are right about applying pressure towards the end of fermentation (for all beers) to around 70kPa/10psi two things this does is in a closed vessel, prevents a vacuum if cold crashing (the vacuum won't hurt the beer but could the vessel) and as you say the beer is partially carbed and ready for transfer.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

If I was buying again I'd probably go for a snub nose. Iv never used the yeast collection thingy and the valve stem that comes up through the lid of the fermentasaurus gen 3 strikes me as an unnecessary potential leak path. Either that or I put it together wrong.... Both are very possible.

As a user of fermentasaurus gen 1 2 and 3 the 3 with the pull up thingy is sound under pressure and I've not had any infection issues. I do drop the yeast out of the collecting bottle and so tend to pressure, cold crash, fine and remove yeast. This is easy on the gen 1 and 2 with butterfly valves.
However the Gen 3 with the plunger I defy anyone to fit the plunger down, remove the collecting bottle, refill it with beer/foam so no air gets back in and then lift the plunger up when it's under pressure. Towards the end of carbing at 15 psi or perhaps more and 25 litres of beer sitting on it, it's impossible.

When I spoke to them at keg king about it they said " let the pressure out" which defeats the purpose really.
Someone could work out the force with 15 psi and the liquid on that 6 or 7 cm diameter plunger cap.
I only use the gen 3 as a conical atmospheric fermenter now, the others I use for quick lagers, natural carbonation and oxygen free transfers. Not for ales or anything that wants yeast expression.

 

[Sadfield]

There's a two different scenarios being presented here.

1) Capping a fermentation in the later stages of fermentation after the bulk of ester production in order to allow the beer to carbonate and then using that pressure to facilitate transfer to a serving keg.

2) Fermenting under pressure to suppress esters and fusel alcohols whilst fermenting hotter and faster, by applying pressure at the start of, or very early in fermentation, when most esters are produced.

Obviously, there's some overlap in the two, whether intended or not, and is dependent on the point at which the pressure is applied or allowed to build. It's mainly a question of working out what is applicable to the beer style and what you want to achieve.

I've done both. Fermented lagers under pressure to get them as clean as possible. Fermented british Ales in a shallow open fermenter to maximise ester production, then transfered to fermenting under pressure at the end of fermentation to carbonate the ale naturally.

Corny kegs are often overlooked here, but are a reasonably cheap and reliable vessels to use to experiment with pressure during fermentation.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Corny keg here about 160 dollars, occasionally seen for around 120 second hand.
Picked up a Gen 2 fermentasaurus unused the other week for 41 dollars. Felt like a steal.

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

Thanks for the replies, not really interested in fermenter with a dump valve. I tend to leave the trub behind in the kettle. I definitely wouldn't use any pressure on my Belgian or ales, more for the American pales just to see if it does make any significant difference to the final beer.
I do wash yeast and reuse so looking more for a cone to compact the yeast during cold crash. As for spunding valves I was looking at the blow tie, anyone buy them off Ali Express? Seem very cheap to what they are available for here.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Catching yeast is easy with the collection vessel on the fermentasaurus, you can even see the stratification.
I favour the spunding valve on the left in this picture, the ones on the right are very finicky and best avoided at whatever the cost.

 

[foxy]

You can set up for pressure ferment really cheaply, a few years ago I set up a cube for a go at pressure fermenting. For spunding there are a few options, there are PRV's set to 10 or 15 PSI you can buy an adjustable diaphragm valve, you may recognise it. The only difference being this is white not red and doesn't have a yellow handle, adjust with a screwdriver.
1.49US $ 1% OFF|1/4" Tube Pushfit Pressure Relief Regulator Filter Protection Valve For RO Water|pressure relief|filter valvepressure relief valve - AliExpress
Another option is the modular inline pressure relief valve which has a factory set pressure, whatever pressure be it 10 or 15 PSI benefit being you don't need any gauge.

Or the low profile one which comes with a ball lock disconnect.

That was 2017, come a long way since then.

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

Well certainly a lot to consider with the paraphernalia used with the closed fermenting vessel. I am not concerned about oxygen ingress. Never had an oxidised beer in all the time I have been brewing. When I say oxidised, oxidised to the point of being able to distinguish any cardboard, sherry taste.
I do believe/know that oxygen ingress does take place no matter what, just think that the amount the we perceive is so small that it is what we expect beer to taste like.

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

Sorry foxy, I showed a colleague of mine your post with the different spunding valves. What is that small one with the ball lock disconnect?

 

[Davegase]

How many home brewers are pressure fermenting and why? Traditionally British ales are, with the yeasts to ferment British ales, fermented at a specific temperature. I understand that we can, as most breweries do add pressure towards the end of fermentation, purely to partially carbonate the beer prior to kegging. Are there any other reasons, am I missing something?
We are thinking of a fermenter purchases, along with all the bits and pieces to meet these ends, when I say we that is myself and some work colleagues who are into home brewing. Looking forward to your replies.

I've been using a fermzilla for about 2 years, it has many advantages. One being flexibility, (you don't have to ferment under pressure). As you say most brewers apply why some pressure towards the end. In fact all homebrewers apply pressure towards the end to carbonate a beer, unless they rely totally on force carbonation.
I prefer to use a pressure control fermentation to fully carbonate my beers to the level I require. After all, who likes paying for for CO2 ?
Even homebrewers that say pressure fermentation is the work of the devil will add priming sugar and ferment under pressure to carbonate.

 

[foxy]

Sorry foxy, I showed a colleague of mine your post with the different spunding valves. What is that small one with the ball lock disconnect?

Sorry sport, I am not allowed to pass on information of brewing merchandise unless it comes from a bonafide fully paid up member of the sponsors of this forum. I think if you get in touch with Brew2Bottle he will be able to help you.

 

[gavp1979]

You can set up for pressure ferment really cheaply, a few years ago I set up a cube for a go at pressure fermenting. For spunding there are a few options, there are PRV's set to 10 or 15 PSI you can buy an adjustable diaphragm valve, you may recognise it. The only difference being this is white not red and doesn't have a yellow handle, adjust with a screwdriver.
1.49US $ 1% OFF|1/4" Tube Pushfit Pressure Relief Regulator Filter Protection Valve For RO Water|pressure relief|filter valvepressure relief valve - AliExpress
Another option is the modular inline pressure relief valve which has a factory set pressure, whatever pressure be it 10 or 15 PSI benefit being you don't need any gauge.
View attachment 64245 View attachment 64246
Or the low profile one which comes with a ball lock disconnect.
View attachment 64247 View attachment 64248
That was 2017, come a long way since then.

Those small ball lock disconnects really do look impressive