Pumps and PIDs

[BeerCat]

I found loads of wiring diagrams for the stc-1000 but none i could understand for PID's. In the end i watched some videos, i can try and find them if you want.
Just managed to wire a pump switch into my controller box which made me very happy. No more unplugging.

 

[user 18729]

I found loads of wiring diagrams for the stc-1000 but none i could understand for PID's. In the end i watched some videos, i can try and find them if you want.
Just managed to wire a pump switch into my controller box which made me very happy. No more unplugging.

Now that would be massively appreciated, thanks! What switch did you go for?

 

[BeerCat]

I used one of these rocker switches for the pump and wired it up following this video.


And this one for the PID from Inkbird.


And this is another one i watched, has some videos explaing PID's and programming, wiring etc.

 

[user 18729]

I used one of these rocker switches for the pump and wired it up following this video.


And this one for the PID from Inkbird.


And this is another one i watched, has some videos explaing PID's and programming, wiring etc.

Just looking at different options. The simplest way is obviously to have a small enclosure housing only the pid/SSR, and then manually plug in the pump ect.

I’d like to run the pump and PID from the one control panel- nothing too complicated just a switch like you’ve done to independently turn the pump on and off.

So my first of many questions- how should that be wired up?

I’ve seen a video online where a second outlet is wired in parallel with the SSR, with a switch used to operate the pump, so that it’s always live when the switch is closed.

That design didn’t incorporate any fuse/breaker either

 

[BeerCat]

I am not a leccy so I cannot really advise other than I wired the switch according to the first video. Was simple enough compared to wiring the PID. I used a terminal block and took the feed from that. I used to just unplug the pump but in the end it did my head in. Next time I open it up will try and remember to take a photo.

 

[user 18729]

Next time I open it up will try and remember to take a photo.

Thanks! I’ve got a rough idea how I’m going to wire it, I’ve been reading through the electric brewery stuff online. I’ll post I circuit diagram when I get a chance before I order any bits

 

[YeastFace]

I found this thread very useful when building my PID controller.

I added two switches on my enclosure, one at mains in and then one before power to element. Means I can either turn the whole unit off or just the element so I can still monitor temps but not risk running the element dry.

I did have a wiring diagram somewhere but lost my phone so think it's gone. Will check my computer.

I didn't bother adding pump control so just plug and play that, but perhaps would if I were to do it again.

Best advice from me is to make sure you're happy with placement of parts before you start cutting your enclosure, and get as big a box as you can as invariably makes wiring easier.

 

[user 18729]

Okay so I’m now thinking I’m going to have a stab at a control pannel.

Trouble is I use two 2kw elements in my boiler and I’d like to be able to use both with the pid to speed things up and not have to manually plug in my second element. I did think about putting in a dedicated power supply in the garage but that’s really going to ramp up the cost.

So my idea is to run two power cables into the control panel, and use a DPDT relay- one side powers one element and the pump, the other part of the relay powering the second element. There will then be a master switch which should turn both power supplies on/of at the same time. Can anyone see any flaws with this idea?

Edit- I’ve not looked into the circuitry of how to control both elements both with separate supply’s with one PID yet. Could you use a second SSR and wire the DC feed from the PID into both of them?

 

[BeerCat]

No idea. Best to ask an expert. @Hoddy could you please help?

I picked up one of these covers but it overlaps the edge of my box. Very cool though.

 

[user 18729]

I’ve posted the same question on another forum and the consensus is that it should work! I’ll try and document it as I go as I’m not sure anyone has done this before

 

[Hoddy]

Ok @BeerCat ill try and explain this one. @Hopsteep

In theory your idea is correct that you could drive two SSR’s from the PID and have a dedicated fused supply to each SSR/2Kw element. Things to check are that’s a) the impedance of the SSR’s and b) what the max load the PID controller output can take. There is a chance that the PID driving two relays could burn it out as it might not be man enough. Also your wiring will be more complicated. If you really wanted to go this route I would be inclined to have one SSR and just parallel the two elements together. Only this solution would require higher rated cable, terminals, protection and SSR which will ultimately cost more.

I see there being two options if your talking about this for your boil kettle.

I would personally be inclined to have one master on/off switch. on that switch I would have a supply that goes to one 2Kw and when the master switch is turned on, it is fully on. No control. But the master switch would then also power up the PID and that would cycle the other 2Kw element to maintain your boil temp. Doing it this way you will get up to boil quickly while not expending excess power and also simplify your wiring as the PID will be working along side the “always on” element.

Or you could just have a single master on on/off switch for one 2Kw element. And then another master on/off switch for the PID controlled 2Kw element. This would give you even more control and also make your wiring even simpler as you can just decide to have either, or, or both when boiling.

Hope that makes sense and helps.

 

[user 18729]

Ok @BeerCat ill try and explain this one. @Hopsteep

In theory your idea is correct that you could drive two SSR’s from the PID and have a dedicated fused supply to each SSR/2Kw element. Things to check are that’s a) the impedance of the SSR’s and b) what the max load the PID controller output can take. There is a chance that the PID driving two relays could burn it out as it might not be man enough. Also your wiring will be more complicated. If you really wanted to go this route I would be inclined to have one SSR and just parallel the two elements together. Only this solution would require higher rated cable, terminals, protection and SSR which will ultimately cost more.

I see there being two options if your talking about this for your boil kettle.

I would personally be inclined to have one master on/off switch. on that switch I would have a supply that goes to one 2Kw and when the master switch is turned on, it is fully on. No control. But the master switch would then also power up the PID and that would cycle the other 2Kw element to maintain your boil temp. Doing it this way you will get up to boil quickly while not expending excess power and also simplify your wiring as the PID will be working along side the “always on” element.

Or you could just have a single master on on/off switch for one 2Kw element. And then another master on/off switch for the PID controlled 2Kw element. This would give you even more control and also make your wiring even simpler as you can just decide to have either, or, or both when boiling.

Hope that makes sense and helps.

Hoddy thanks for that, really appreciated.

I should have maybe explained that my system is only 2 vessel- my copper will double as a HERMS vessel during the mash. In order to cover all of the HERMS coils, there will be a good 25-30L of water to heat. For that reason I’d like to have the PID control both elements.

I know it’s unusual and not the best solution but having two power supplies is the way I need to go, to allow the system to remain portable and ultimately save money in having a sparky come out and fit a 32A supply (or higher) in the garage.

The PID is the inkbird VH model, I’ll need to check the data sheet but I’d imagine you’re right and it may not be able to drive two SSRs.

Edit- had a quick look and the PID output is 12V DC (30mA). The SSR input is rated 3-32 volts DC. Might be a daft question, but does that mean the output of the PID is fixed at 30mA regardless of how much demand you place on it?

 

[Hoddy]

Hoddy thanks for that, really appreciated.

I should have maybe explained that my system is only 2 vessel- my copper will double as a HERMS vessel during the mash. In order to cover all of the HERMS coils, there will be a good 25-30L of water to heat. For that reason I’d like to have the PID control both elements.

I know it’s unusual and not the best solution but having two power supplies is the way I need to go, to allow the system to remain portable and ultimately save money in having a sparky come out and fit a 32A supply (or higher) in the garage.

The PID is the inkbird VH model, I’ll need to check the data sheet but I’d imagine you’re right and it may not be able to drive two SSRs.

Edit- had a quick look and the PID output is 12V DC (30mA). The SSR input is rated 3-32 volts DC. Might be a daft question, but does that mean the output of the PID is fixed at 30mA regardless of how much demand you place on it?

What SSR are you using? Looking at the PID it has a Voltage Output (for driving SSR): 12VDC, 30mA DC which means it can take a max load of 600Ω. So it would be vital you know that for the SSR. You might be lucky but i suspect it wont be able to manage to switch both SSR's.

To answer your question the 30ma is a max current (DC) that the PID output can deliver (source). It basically takes a certain amount of "Ooumph" to switch an SSR. And the 30ma is how much the PID has to use.

One thing : - do you not think that one element on the PID would be able to maintain the HERM coil water temp you want? Thats only going to be circa 77oC which i woudl have thought one element could do?

Also : You do know no matter how the elements are connected up the "power" needed will be the same. So what do you mean by you dont want to have to have a 32amp supply installed?

Just trying to make sure your doing this safely.

 

[user 18729]

What SSR are you using? Looking at the PID it has a Voltage Output (for driving SSR): 12VDC, 30mA DC which means it can take a max load of 600Ω. So it would be vital you know that for the SSR. You might be lucky but i suspect it wont be able to manage to switch both SSR's.

To answer your question the 30ma is a max current (DC) that the PID output can deliver (source). It basically takes a certain amount of "Ooumph" to switch an SSR. And the 30ma is how much the PID has to use.

One thing : - do you not think that one element on the PID would be able to maintain the HERM coil water temp you want? Thats only going to be circa 77oC which i woudl have thought one element could do?

Also : You do know no matter how the elements are connected up the "power" needed will be the same. So what do you mean by you dont want to have to have a 32amp supply installed?

Just trying to make sure your doing this safely.

The SSR is an inkbird 40A.

Could you explain how you get 600 ohms as it’s resistance? Not sure what the resistance or the power consumption is for the SSR sadly. I’ll keep digging though.

I did think about using just one element precisely as you described earlier and manually turning on the other when needed however for doing step mashes I’d like to do that as fast as possible.

If I connect both elements together they will draw the best part of 20A through the single power supply (a max load 13A wall socket). Hence the two supplies so that I don’t need a higher rated socket to be installed. That’s why many people on here (myself included) will run each element from a different socket in the house. Does that make sense?

 

[ECLIPSE]

I have the same inkbird pids in my control panel and I drive 2 40amp SSRs off one PID output no problem atall. I have 2 2.4kw elements in my boil kettle. It is not a big job to have a dedicated supply fitted to your garage. I had a 50amp line fed into the garage which is RCD and the MCB protected in my brew panel.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

The SSR is an inkbird 40A.

Could you explain how you get 600 ohms as it’s resistance? Not sure what the resistance or the power consumption is for the SSR sadly. I’ll keep digging though.

I did think about using just one element precisely as you described earlier and manually turning on the other when needed however for doing step mashes I’d like to do that as fast as possible.

If I connect both elements together they will draw the best part of 20A through the single power supply (a max load 13A wall socket). Hence the two supplies so that I don’t need a higher rated socket to be installed. That’s why many people on here (myself included) will run each element from a different socket in the house. Does that make sense?

I use a 5.5kw element,which is run off a seperate spur off the house consumer unit,to a secondary consumer unit with a 40 amp breaker.The controller is an Omron pid with a 40amp SSR.All installed by a qualified electrician,and never a single problem,apart from a stuck SSR which was easily replaced.

 

[user 18729]

I have the same inkbird pids in my control panel and I drive 2 40amp SSRs off one PID output no problem atall. I have 2 2.4kw elements in my boil kettle. It is not a big job to have a dedicated supply fitted to your garage. I had a 50amp line fed into the garage which is RCD and the MCB protected in my brew panel.

How many £££ are we talking about then roughly? Bearing in mind I’m now living in Essex can’t even get a pint for less than £4

 

[ECLIPSE]

It was under £50 for my dedicated panel feed from consumer unit.

 

[user 18729]

So I’ve convinced the other half to let me have a dedicated brewing supply put into the garage at some stage. I think I’d like something like a 32A socket installed rather than hard wiring my panel. I intend to wheel the brewing bench out of the garage slightly when in use so I’d like to keep it all plug and play.

If anyone is reading this thread one day and is thinking about doing what I initially came up with, it could definitely work. I’ve looked at the consumption of the SSR and then calculated the overall usage in that circuit (wired in parallel) and as ECLIPSE has said, for the inkbird it is not a problem.
Similarly having a relay control two power supplies would work (maybe not best practise though).

I’ve been thinking about what functionality I’d like in my panel and decided on using two PIDs- one will be set for the boil and the other set for HERMS. I’m going to use a 3 position maintained contactor to switch between the pids. That will save me having to recalibrate the single pid and move the PT100 from each vessel.

Is there a supplier for the electrical components that people use, or is it a case of shopping around on eBay and the likes?

 

[ECLIPSE]

I used a combination of eBay, AliExpress, rs components, Toolstation. It really depends what else you want your control panel to do. Here's some pics of my panel. It might help you decide how much wiring/functionality you are looking for:thumba: