Redron's inefficient brewday...

[Redron]

So, after much discussion and advice on improving my BIAB efficiency, today was brew day with a focused attempt on improving things a little.

Exmoor Beast clone.
The recipe calls for

6020 Pale Maris otter
545 Crystal Malt
250 Chocolate Malt
The hop additions are not important here.

I upped the MO to 6800 to compensate for any Biab efficiency loss with a view to hitting a target OG of 1064. According to my notes this is what I got last time with the all made up kit from Worcester hop shop . Note, the kit came with the regulation 6020 MO ... that got me 61.5%

33L strike water to 73 degs
Doughed in carefully the grain bill.
Mashed for 90 mins with three good stirs.
Temp post mash, 64degs.

Left the bag in the wort whilst back on the burner and stirred occasionally whilst the temp came up to 80 degrees.
Swished the grain around in the bag for 5 mins before lifting and tying off above the pan whilst it drained and the gave it a real good squeeze, not forgetting grain absorption from 6.8 kg can be quite a bit...

75 minute boil and a rapid cool before dispensing 20L into the fv. I'm never sure wether to drain the dregs inc all the hop debris. I use a Bazooka hop filter in the pan but sometimes I'm tempted to drain the dregs through a sieve for a further litre or so...

Anyway, moment of truth. Quick sample into the trial jar shows me 1058 !!!!!!
WTF !
I make that 49.6% efficiency

I give up........ after all the concentrated effort to improve things, it got worse !

So, thinking about it. I use a 2L plastic jug to scoop the grain from the sack. I have double checked the weights of a nearly full jug at 850g on what I assume to be accurate Salter kitchen scales, so 8 jugs gives me 6800g.
I really can't think of anything else other than the grain in the sack is a mix of semi crushed grain and some not so crushed grain. This is the second brew from the sack so maybe the more crushed bits are at the bottom....

I'm off for an (inefficient) beer ...

Anyway, ''twas truly a beautiful day to be mucking about and brewing beer here today.
I've added a couple of pics.

 

[strange-steve]

How much are you leaving in the kettle after the boil? This can have a big impact on your bhe.

 

[Simonh82]

How much are you leaving in the kettle after the boil? This can have a big impact on your bhe.

I agree with Steve, I try to get as much into the FV as possible. I know some people like to avoid trub but I would prefer to get as much into the FV as possible and worry about the trub after fermentation. I alway tip my boiler and poke at the hops to get more out.

Also grain crush can have a big impact. If you have grains which are whole or only barely crushed then it will be very hard for them to get thoroughly soaked and for the sugars to get out of an intact kernel.

For BIAB you can crush the grain very finely. See if your HB shop can give you a finer crush, or double crush for you.

 

[JFB]

Think I could live with inefficient beer with those views!!
Is that fishing rods in the shed? what do you go after?

 

[Redron]

How much are you leaving in the kettle after the boil? This can have a big impact on your bhe.

Probably about a litre. In the past I have drained the post chill trub through a sieve, but not really noted if has any impact on the final OG. Why would it ? Surely it's just hop trub....

 

[Redron]

Think I could live with inefficient beer with those views!!
Is that fishing rods in the shed? what do you go after?

Trout, salmon, sea trout, pollack, cod,mackerel,spurdog, tope,gurnard........ it's all here !

 

[Leon103]

Post a photo of your hydrometer reading just to be sure you are doing it right.

Also you say some of the grain in the sack isn't crushed, that's you problem. All of the grain should be crushed. Change supplier.

 

[strange-steve]

Probably about a litre. In the past I have drained the post chill trub through a sieve, but not really noted if has any impact on the final OG. Why would it ? Surely it's just hop trub....

It doesn't affect the OG but it does impact the efficiency which is based on both OG and volume. Brew house efficiency is based on the volume into fermenter, so any losses in the kettle due to trub will lower the figure.
That being said, if you're only leaving 1L then that's not your problem. There's nothing obviously wrong with the process you've written there, but 50% is obviously very low :hmm: As others have said a poor crush is a likely culprit.

 

[TartanSpecial]

33L strike water to 73 degs
Doughed in carefully the grain bill.
Mashed for 90 mins with three good stirs.
Temp post mash, 64degs.

Left the bag in the wort whilst back on the burner and stirred occasionally whilst the temp came up to 80 degrees.
Swished the grain around in the bag for 5 mins before lifting and tying off above the pan whilst it drained and the gave it a real good squeeze, not forgetting grain absorption from 6.8 kg can be quite a bit...

+1 on the views. I know nothing about BIAB (I have separate mash tun) but when you say 33ltr strike water...is the grain mashing in the full 33ltr without a sparge?? if so it is pretty dilute grain /water ratio. Again..I don't do BIAB but if I run the recipe though beersmith for my equipment I'd heat up approx 33-35ltrs strike water but only add 17ltrs for the mash, then sparge with another 15-17ltrs.

 

[Redron]

Post a photo of your hydrometer reading just to be sure you are doing it right.

Also you say some of the grain in the sack isn't crushed, that's you problem. All of the grain should be crushed. Change supplier.

Sorry, yeast pitched and on it's way. But definitely 1058. I had to double/triple check as I didn't quite believe it.
As of the grain crush, I will be looking into a grain mill and crushing my own pretty soon. It will be that or maybe trying a sack from the
Malt Miller who apparently will mill grain to your requirements.

 

[strange-steve]

+1 on the views. I know nothing about BIAB (I have separate mash tun) but when you say 33ltr strike water...is the grain mashing in the full 33ltr without a sparge?? if so it is pretty dilute grain /water ratio. Again..I don't do BIAB but if I run the recipe though beersmith for my equipment I'd heat up approx 33-35ltrs strike water but only add 17ltrs for the mash, then sparge with another 15-17ltrs.

Yeah full volume of water in the mash isn't unusual with BIAB. Full volume mashing has actually become more common even in 3V brewing. It does lower the efficiency a bit but it shouldn't be anywhere near as low as 50%.

 

[TartanSpecial]

The only thing I'd look at again is water hardness....you don't happen to live in the tiny bit of Skye that has the yellow coloured dot ?? (yellow is medium hardness, green soft and red hard) Note this chart isn't very recent.
Otherwise I can't explain it assuming your thermometer is OK (test in a rolling boil).

 

[Redron]

Good call Tartan.
We live on a limestone fault line. I can look out of the window and look at clints and grikes (look it up) on the hillside above us. That said our water is piped from 5 miles away and from granite strata (I think...?) . Our water is soft. I have never tested it but we don't have a firred kettle and we can get a right lather on with the soap (?).
I know the difference, my mother in law lives in Broadstairs in Kent and their water is horrible. She use's a water filter and the kettle is always full of bits. I would hate to have to brew with it.

 

[TartanSpecial]

I'm stumped then.... :wha:

 

[Covrich]

Yeah full volume of water in the mash isn't unusual with BIAB. Full volume mashing has actually become more common even in 3V brewing. It does lower the efficiency a bit but it shouldn't be anywhere near as low as 50%.

BIAB was supposed to be full volume originallyalthough people have added sparges in.

I get 75% roughly doing it.. you can get good numbers on it.. But I think you have to get a decent crush to suit and like i mentioned before spend a while doughoing in make sure you stir thoroughly.

Why Redron is suffereing is odd

I can only think water or maybe large pre crushed grain with diminishing returns..